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Fairfax County VA - davemcclung - 02-26-2010
[quote name='Roto-Ray' date='26 February 2010 - 12:32 AM' timestamp='1267164743' post='366386']
That's pretty popular in that area. In congested areas where the ladder rack may interfere with cars parked on the curb, it gives the members better access to the ladders.
[/quote]
Tayler was it the Alexandria rigs or Engine 410 that were the first driver sided ladder racks in NOVA? I was going to say possibly also Dale City but I think those Dash's came after the Alexandria rigs. I know the genesis of the left sided ladder rack was covered here or in the Alexandria thread previously, I am just too damn busy to read back through all the posts to find it.
It could have possibly been someone else but I thought it was Alexandria or Bailey's that was the chicken that hatched the egg. Corrections/better memories encouraged....
Fairfax County VA - drfeelgood - 02-26-2010
[quote name='Dave McClung' date='26 February 2010 - 01:58 PM' timestamp='1267209525' post='366470']
Tayler was it the Alexandria rigs or Engine 410 that were the first driver sided ladder racks in NOVA? I was going to say possibly also Dale City but I think those Dash's came after the Alexandria rigs. I know the genesis of the left sided ladder rack was covered here or in the Alexandria thread previously, I am just too damn busy to read back through all the posts to find it.
It could have possibly been someone else but I thought it was Alexandria or Bailey's that was the chicken that hatched the egg. Corrections/better memories encouraged....
[/quote]
Dave Alex was first. Bailey's and Dale City came in around the same time and then Fairfax. Warrenton, MWAA, Chancellorsville followed.
Fairfax County VA - Guest - 02-26-2010
[quote name='Dave McClung' date='26 February 2010 - 01:58 PM' timestamp='1267209525' post='366470']
Tayler was it the Alexandria rigs or Engine 410 that were the first driver sided ladder racks in NOVA? I was going to say possibly also Dale City but I think those Dash's came after the Alexandria rigs. I know the genesis of the left sided ladder rack was covered here or in the Alexandria thread previously, I am just too damn busy to read back through all the posts to find it.
It could have possibly been someone else but I thought it was Alexandria or Bailey's that was the chicken that hatched the egg. Corrections/better memories encouraged....
[/quote]
sorry fellows but once again Penn Daw leeds where others follow: <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hysterical.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
' />Credit to the pride of the highway website.
Fairfax County VA - chief60 - 02-26-2010
To add fuel to a growing fire in FFX, I believe the Arrow XT is still 96" wide. It was as of 2008. The Arlington Rigs are an excellent design. Portland, Oregon have some that are short with low hosebeds. I cant wait to see what DCFD new Pierce engines look like!
Fairfax County VA - chief60 - 02-26-2010
Here are a couple of the Portland units. Credit to Hughes Fire website. The trucks are 30'5" long.
Fairfax County VA - davemcclung - 02-26-2010
[quote name='Joe719' date='26 February 2010 - 04:39 PM' timestamp='1267222764' post='366496']
sorry fellows but once again Penn Daw leeds where others follow: <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hysterical.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
' />Credit to the pride of the highway website.
[/quote]
Good one Joe, I got a kick out of that.
Fairfax County VA - davemcclung - 02-26-2010
[quote name='chief60' date='26 February 2010 - 05:18 PM' timestamp='1267225080' post='366507']
To add fuel to a growing fire in FFX, I believe the Arrow XT is still 96" wide. It was as of 2008. The Arlington Rigs are an excellent design. Portland, Oregon have some that are short with low hosebeds. I cant wait to see what DCFD new Pierce engines look like!
[/quote]
You are correct Arrow XT is 96" as it is not a "new" chassis, the orgiginal design has just been updated. Each department looks at its response districts and specs rigs that meet their local requirements. I would expect short wheel base pumpers in DC. Whereas I am not surprised with the specs of the FFX County pumpers. FFX County as a whole is a more suburban jurisdiction so one would expect a slightly longer wheel base for pumpers.
I am not going to step anywhere near the Velocity/Impel vs Arrow XT chassis debate. With that said, here I break my word and go near the debate. My preference would be to have the Dash back but I have seen rigs I like on Velocity chassis and rigs I like on Arrow XT chassis. My recent favorite are the Arrow XT's at MWAA Engines 301 and 303. Ideally, I would like to take the specs for Alexandria Engine 204/207 add speedlays in front of the pump panel, remote deluge gun on an Arrow XT chassis - that would be one nice rig. I also like the PUCs like Buena Vista, etc.
Fairfax County VA - Guest - 02-26-2010
The Portland rigs closely resemble the new Arlington rigs, which are excellent from what I have seen up close. To compare them to the Velocity's is a huge contrast in length, width, wheelbase, etc. I know there have been a number of speculations that they (the Velocity's) only "appear" to be larger than the '05 Dash rigs, but even if you look at the cab only, the officer/drivers doors are HUGE. Also, if you look at the additional length of the cab (appears to be around 6-8 inches) it adds up. In my opinion it may only appear larger because everything on the rig is bigger. I have always been fond of the 2005 Dash's - from the size, design, paint scheme (including the red bumpers with unit number), the american flag colors on the grill, and yes, the roto-rays. I am also a big fan of Engine 410 and the Dale City Engines, which despite carrying 750 gallons of water are still tight, compact, and well spec'd.
Just my 2 cents!
BTW - "The Pride of the Highway" strikes again! <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
' /> Nate
Fairfax County VA - davemcclung - 02-26-2010
[quote name='chief60' date='26 February 2010 - 05:18 PM' timestamp='1267225080' post='366507']
To add fuel to a growing fire in FFX, I believe the Arrow XT is still 96" wide. It was as of 2008. The Arlington Rigs are an excellent design. Portland, Oregon have some that are short with low hosebeds. I cant wait to see what DCFD new Pierce engines look like!
[/quote]
Just as a comparison, NOVA depts can do short wheel base.
Arlington's Arrow XT's are 29' 10.75" long
Alexandria Engine (Dash) 202 is 29' 1.25" long
Alexandria Engine 201 (Dash) is the winner at 28' 8" long
I am not sure what DC's specs are, I am sure someone will be able to contribute that.
Fairfax County VA - chief60 - 02-26-2010
DCFD engines show an estimated length of 338" - 28'2" on the drawing.
Fairfax County VA - davemcclung - 02-26-2010
[quote name='chief60' date='26 February 2010 - 08:32 PM' timestamp='1267236724' post='366538']
DCFD engines show an estimated length of 338" - 28'2" on the drawing.
[/quote]
Thanks for the info chief60. How many Pierces is DC ordering? I hadn't heard about the order yet? Did they order Arrow XT I am assuming?
Fairfax County VA - stokess - 02-26-2010
What are the wheelbases on these? E413's PUC is 32' 6.5" over all length but its wheelbase is 188". We could have gotten it down to 177" (Which we really wanted to have) but we couldn't put the ladders through the tank on the PUC with it at 177 - and even though it was an ALF issue, after the problems with the rack on E413B we said no ladder rack so 188 was what it was. The ALF is 180" and we thought that was long when we bought it.
Oh and on the Velocity cabs if you want to see the width difference stand by the pump panel and look at it, it really stands out there the 2" per side that the cab is wider then the body.
Shawn
[quote name='Dave McClung' date='26 February 2010 - 07:55 PM' timestamp='1267230903' post='366525']
Just as a comparison, NOVA depts can do short wheel base.
Arlington's Arrow XT's are 29' 10.75" long
Alexandria Engine (Dash) 202 is 29' 1.25" long
Alexandria Engine 201 (Dash) is the winner at 28' 8" long
I am not sure what DC's specs are, I am sure someone will be able to contribute that.
[/quote]
Fairfax County VA - davemcclung - 02-26-2010
[quote name='Chief413' date='26 February 2010 - 09:24 PM' timestamp='1267239890' post='366544']
What are the wheelbases on these? E413's PUC is 32' 6.5" over all length but its wheelbase is 188". We could have gotten it down to 177" (Which we really wanted to have) but we couldn't put the ladders through the tank on the PUC with it at 177 - and even though it was an ALF issue, after the problems with the rack on E413B we said no ladder rack so 188 was what it was. The ALF is 180" and we thought that was long when we bought it.
Oh and on the Velocity cabs if you want to see the width difference stand by the pump panel and look at it, it really stands out there the 2" per side that the cab is wider then the body.
Shawn
[/quote]
Ok lengths and Wheel base
Arlington's Arrow XT's are 29' 10.75" long WB 172.5"
Alexandria Engine (Dash) 202 is 29' 1.25" long WB 171.5"
Alexandria Engine 201 (Dash) is 28' 8" long WB 170.5
Alexandria Engine 204/207 (Dash)31" 7" long WB 194"
Alexandria Engine 208 (Dash) is 32" .5" long WB 199.5"
MWAA Engine 301/303 (Arrow XT) 32' 6.5" long WB 198"
FFX CO Engine 432 (Velocity) 32' 7" long WB 197"
Fairfax County VA - dawson_fire - 02-27-2010
[quote name='chief60' date='26 February 2010 - 09:32 PM' timestamp='1267236724' post='366538']
DCFD engines show an estimated length of 338" - 28'2" on the drawing.
[/quote]
My perception was that DCFD was very happy with the Seagrave engines and didn't care for the Pierce's at all. Why the change of heart?
Terry
Fairfax County VA - Guest - 02-27-2010
I was informed that DC has 2 Rescues, and 5 Engines ordered from Pierce. Seagrave did not bid on these! Something is up.
Fairfax County VA - Guest - 02-27-2010
Thanks for the info Shawn. Is it me or do the Velocity's seem taller as well?
DC going back to Pierce. Who woulda thunk?
Fairfax County VA - Guest - 02-27-2010
[quote name='Shoop' date='27 February 2010 - 06:45 AM' timestamp='1267269917' post='366574']
I was informed that DC has 2 Rescues, and 5 Engines ordered from Pierce. Seagrave did not bid on these! Something is up.
[/quote]
Did I hear correctly that Seagrave also lost the bid with FDNY, and that they were receiving a good number of Ferrara's?
Fairfax County VA - davemcclung - 02-27-2010
[quote name='Shoop' date='27 February 2010 - 05:45 AM' timestamp='1267269917' post='366574']
I was informed that DC has 2 Rescues, and 5 Engines ordered from Pierce. Seagrave did not bid on these! Something is up.
[/quote]
Yeah and Seagrave didn't place a bid on some recent FDNY orders too I think. I have heard rumors of economic problems.
Fairfax County VA - crapgame79 - 02-27-2010
[quote name='Dave McClung' date='26 February 2010 - 07:41 PM' timestamp='1267230091' post='366523']
You are correct Arrow XT is 96" as it is not a "new" chassis, the orgiginal design has just been updated. Each department looks at its response districts and specs rigs that meet their local requirements. I would expect short wheel base pumpers in DC. Whereas I am not surprised with the specs of the FFX County pumpers. FFX County as a whole is a more suburban jurisdiction so one would expect a slightly longer wheel base for pumpers.
I am not going to step anywhere near the Velocity/Impel vs Arrow XT chassis debate. With that said, here I break my word and go near the debate. My preference would be to have the Dash back but I have seen rigs I like on Velocity chassis and rigs I like on Arrow XT chassis. My recent favorite are the Arrow XT's at MWAA Engines 301 and 303. Ideally, I would like to take the specs for Alexandria Engine 204/207 add speedlays in front of the pump panel, remote deluge gun on an Arrow XT chassis - that would be one nice rig. I also like the PUCs like Buena Vista, etc.
[/quote]
Dave, Please don't take this at all personal, as I enjoy your photos and imput here.
Fairfax is suburban only in name, the need for a short wheelbase engine company exists here now more than ever, and it will only become more vital as the county continues to grow and become more congested. In the county nearly every firehouse has a special service piece either in the firehouse or in the second due area, there is not a huge need for a ton of equipment on our engine companies, and there is a bunch of wasted compartment space on our engine companies now anyway. I hear the FD administration make the argument for 750 gallon tanks, which is fine, but Bedford VA has an engine company with 750 gpm's that comes in at just over 29 feet long I don't see why something like that wouldn't work here in NOVA.
also just my .02
Fairfax County VA - davemcclung - 02-27-2010
[quote name='FiremanJoe' date='27 February 2010 - 12:37 PM' timestamp='1267294664' post='366611']
Dave, Please don't take this at all personal, as I enjoy your photos and imput here.
Fairfax is suburban only in name, the need for a short wheelbase engine company exists here now more than ever, and it will only become more vital as the county continues to grow and become more congested. In the county nearly every firehouse has a special service piece either in the firehouse or in the second due area, there is not a huge need for a ton of equipment on our engine companies, and there is a bunch of wasted compartment space on our engine companies now anyway. I hear the FD administration make the argument for 750 gallon tanks, which is fine, but Bedford VA has an engine company with 750 gpm's that comes in at just over 29 feet long I don't see why something like that wouldn't work here in NOVA.
also just my .02
[/quote]
Joe, I never take anything personal. The great thing is there is enough room for lots of different points of view and perspectives. Thanks for the contibution. I like to see the FFX Co, Alexandria, and the MWAA threads getting interesting, informative, and thought provoking posts.
I just don't think that FFX County is too far out of whack when compared to the surrounding communities is the point I have been making. I have always found FFX Co to be well run, well managed, some of the best guys/gals in the business. I think we can all have our opinions on whether the pumpers and chassis they are currently procuring is the best for that jurisdiction but we really won't know for many years who is "most correct" in their opinions. No one is ever right. And it will take time and experience to know whether they went in the right direction.
I think we can all agree that FFX County, which is a large jurisdiction with almost 1 million people with highrise buildings and horse farms, has a broad and diverse response district and the type of pumper you want at 410 is not exactly the best spec for a pumper at 412 or 416 or even 420.
Now that being said, if you choose for reasons that aren't all that hard to understand that you want one spec for pumpers across a broad jurisdiction, in my opinion you arrive at something like FFX County has purchased. Take the issue of Velocity vs Whoknowswhat out of the equation.
p.s. Just so long as it is a Pierce. :-) Just Kidding, sorta.