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+--- Thread: THINGS FROM MY COLLECTION (/showthread.php?tid=1759)
THINGS FROM MY COLLECTION - paganores10cue - 05-29-2012
[quote name='Bob-Ont' timestamp='1338161145' post='486275']
The box was built by HERMAN BODY COMPANY, a subsidiary of ALF. Herman was located in St. Louis. Their main line was beverage trucks. If memory serves me correctly, Herman built about 20 rescue style bodies on custom ALF and commercial chassis. The only one that I saw in service belonged to the Pine Hill Hose Co. in Cheektowaga, NY.
[/quote]
I would love to see that, being from Cheektowaga myself.
THINGS FROM MY COLLECTION - SrFireOfficial - 05-29-2012
[quote name='tascman' timestamp='1338149777' post='486251']
Camden-Wyoming, DE had this 1961 American LaFrance Squad. Who built the box? Bob Norman pic/Mattson Collection <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/usa.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
' /> [/quote]
So this is the same rig in Walt McCall's North American Fire Engines Since 1900 (P. 300, lower right corner); it looks identical with some minor modifications. McCall has it listed as a 1960 900 series 750 gpm pumper with a rescue body and does not mention any other builders involved.
THINGS FROM MY COLLECTION - Guest - 05-29-2012
I Have A Few Blueprints From ALF with the Bodies Built By Herman In St. Louis.
THINGS FROM MY COLLECTION - GA_Dave - 05-29-2012
[quote name='LHFD4' timestamp='1338323000' post='486608']
I Have A Few Blueprints From ALF with the Bodies Built By Herman In St. Louis.
[/quote]
What FD's were they built for?
THINGS FROM MY COLLECTION - Guest - 05-29-2012
Dave - I'll have to dig them up.
THINGS FROM MY COLLECTION - e290l103 - 05-29-2012
here are 6
1959 B2340 B2340 Center Twp. FD-Bunker Hill, Kansas KS 750/500 1-59 Chevrolet 8503/ALF-Herman Body Co.
1959 N00001 F3177 Solana, California CA 750/500 3-10-59 Ford F800/ALF-Herman Body Co.
1959 F3178 Boeing Aircraft Corp.-Seattle, Washington WA 750/500 6-29-59 Ford F800/ALF-Herman Body Co.
1959 N00001 F3179 Lakeside, California CA 750/500 10-8-59 Ford F800/ALF-Herman Body Co.
1959 N0776 N776 St. Mary's, Pennsylvania PA BP/300/Rescue Unit 12-10-59 American La France/Herman Body Co.
1960 N0925 N925 Cheektowaga, New York NY 750/300 Rescue D975PKSQKC 5-28-60 American La France/Herman Body Co
THINGS FROM MY COLLECTION - Guest - 05-29-2012
There was a discussion about ALF/Herman bodies on Firepics a few years ago, but i can not find it now. One was this 1958 ALF/Herman for PLeasantville, NY in service as Patrol 7 from 1958 to 1981 when replaced by a Hahn. Photo from the collection of the Pleasantville Fire Patrol. Unknown photographer.
From what the older members of the company told me, Its last known location was somewhere in Massachusetts.
THINGS FROM MY COLLECTION - GA_Dave - 05-29-2012
This photo is of a 1962 ALF-Herman delivery for Lock Haven, PA. It is one of at least four similar rigs built with the others going to Kings Park, NY (1959); Northumberland, PA (1961); and Lehighton, PA (1961). Another body style of similar dimensions had additional compartments and a booster pump in place of the crew compartment. One of this design, built on a Ford F-500 chassis, was delivered to Garrett, IN in 1959. A larger, walk-in style body was used for the rescue for Claymont, DE. It was built on a 1958 GMC chassis.
The Wheaton Rescue Squad in Wheaton, MD operated a walk-in heavy rescue built on a 1960 Ford C Series chassis. A photo of this one appears in the Iconografix book "Heavy Rescue Trucks 1931-2000" on page 43. This is a large body, similar to the Pine Hill rig, but without the pump and tank.
Here is a list of other possible ALF-Herman rigs:
Endwell, NY GMC 1959
Marshalltown, IA Ford 1961
Odessa, ?? Ford 1958
Island Beach, CA Ford 1959
Merrick, NY 1960
Glenville, NY 1960
Lindenhurst, NY 1961
THINGS FROM MY COLLECTION - BA000049 - 05-30-2012
THINGS FROM MY COLLECTION - Guest - 05-30-2012
Whoops got my websites confused. Discussion was on youngstownfire.com/forums
Here is a link [url="http://yngfire.com/index.php/topic,3895.0.html"]http://yngfire.com/index.php/topic,3895.0.html[/url]
THINGS FROM MY COLLECTION - GA_Dave - 05-30-2012
[quote name='grumpyFF' timestamp='1338385581' post='486687']
Whoops got my websites confused. Discussion was on youngstownfire.com/forums
Here is a link [url="http://yngfire.com/index.php/topic,3895.0.html"]http://yngfire.com/i...pic,3895.0.html[/url]
[/quote]
Hey, I think I know the guy who started that thread.......
I was on a different computer when I wrote the post above, so I didn't have all my info with me. The Merrick, NY rig was a red open-cab 900 Series with a body similar to the Cheektowaga/Camden-Wyoming/South Bowers rig, but without a pump or tank. It was later sold to Hebron, NY.
LFPDT75 posted a photo of a rig similar to the Lock Haven rig, but from Coal Township PA in this thread, post #149. It could be the former Northumberland rig.
[url="http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/index.php?showtopic=19209&st=140"]http://www.firepics....ic=19209&st=140[/url]
I have never been able to confirm that the Pleasantville, NY rig was a Herman, nor have I ever figured out the Odessa rig, which I have conflicting info about. One account has it as a Ford chassis, while photos show a 900 Series. One says Odessa, NY, another says Odessa, TX.
The info that started the whole ALF-Herman thing for me was an article many years ago in Enjine, Engine. The author had a short list and a few photos of ALF-Herman rigs. The subject interested me, so I began digging. I am surprised that only two of the rigs I have identified are on Mike's list! More digging to do.....
THINGS FROM MY COLLECTION - Guest - 05-30-2012
Dave - Do you have any copies of the Phoenix Newletter that was done by late John Pekman. I got involved with him on the Herman Fire Apparatus. I'll post the 2 articles that was done.
In the October, 1999 issue was his first article:
LOOKING FOR ALF/HERMAN INFORMATION
In 1958, American LaFrance bought the Herman Body Corp., St. Louis, Missouri, a Division of Jerry O'Mahoney Inc., Elizabeth, N.J. The company continued in business as ALF/Herman Body Corp., still in St. Louis.
The primary purpose was to build Rescue Bodies and do military work. I have a list of communities for whom they either did proposals, or actually built units. The dates are questionable, and the ones in italics are for proposals. Can anyone fill in info on which ones on the list were built, and other information.
Cheektawogo. N.Y. 8/26/1958
Sayville, N.Y. 4/6/1959
West Islip, N.Y. 4/6/1959
North Irwin, ? 4/13/1959
Odessa, Texas 5/22/1959
Wheaton, MD 2/29/1960
Brockton, MA 12/10/1958
Garret, IN 8/27/1958
So. Williamsport, PA. 8/8/1958
Claymont, ? 6/11/1958
Kings Park, N.Y. 9/18/1958
Edwell, N.Y. 7/31/1958
St. Mary's, PA 11/23/1958
Marrick, N.Y. 6/16/1960
Lindenhurst, N.Y. 11/21/1960
I believe Kings Park was built, but not positive. Endwell is a maybe, St. Mary's is a yes, as are Merrick amd Lindenhirst.
Are There other that are not on the list? If you can add any other information, please send it to the Phoenix.
THINGS FROM MY COLLECTION - GA_Dave - 05-30-2012
A little more digging found the following:
On Endwell, NY's FD website, there is a small shot of their 1959 GMC/ALF-Herman.
[url="http://www.endwellfire.com/public/apparatus/oos/oos.html"]http://www.endwellfire.com/public/apparatus/oos/oos.html[/url] (Picture 5)
On the website of the East Glenville, NY FD is this quote:
"Two matching pieces of fire apparatus were added in 1960, an American LaFrance 750 gallon per minute pumper and a Triple Combination Squad Truck." There are no photos, but I would guess that this is the rig mentioned in the list above from Glenville, NY.
On FD website of Odessa, TX I found a photo of the open cab 900 series rescue/floodlight unit. I'm still not positive if this rig was an ALF or an ALF-Herman. It's No. 22 it the photo.
[url="http://pub23.bravenet.com/photocenter/viewimg.php?usernum=1947585736&show=CF02A13DA5.jpg"]http://pub23.bravenet.com/photocenter/viewimg.php?usernum=1947585736&show=CF02A13DA5.jpg[/url]
THINGS FROM MY COLLECTION - Guest - 05-30-2012
This article appeared on the April, 2000 isuue of the Phoenix
Body by the ALF/Herman Corporation
4400 Clayton Avenue, St. Louis, Missouri
Relatively little is known about the ALF/Herman Body Company at this time, but I hope these photos and captions will encourage some one to delve into this rather obscure part of American LaFrance history. Their contribution to the American LaFrance product line was interesting, but the main question is - Why was Herman selected?
Founded in 1937, in St. Louis, Missouri, The Herman Body Corporation servived by making refridgerated truck bodies for such things as ice-cream, and for delivery vehicles for soda (that's Tonic if you live in New England, and POP if you live down south) bottlers. Actually, their bodies graced both commercial truck chassis and trailer rigs. From all I've been able to find out, the company built excellent products, and had a fine reputation.
In 1952, Herman became a division of the Jerry O;Mahoney Inc., of Elizabeth, New Jersey. I understand that O'Mahoney built diners. In spite of the new ownership, Herman remained in St. Louis.
Photos Showd:
Kings Park, N.Y. - Ford C-600 Rescue (Shipped about January, 1959)
Garrett, Indiana - 1959 Ford F-500 Rescue with booster pump.
Lehigton. PA - 1961 Ford C-750 Rescue.
Northumberland, PA - 1961 Ford C-600 Rescue
Lock Haven, PA - 1962 Ford C-750 Rescue
Claymont, DE - GMC Rescue Reg# N-973 Shipped 5/11/1958
(Note: all 4 Ford C seem to have the same Rescue Body)
By 1958, the company was in dire straits when American LaFrance came to the rescue. The "new" name became the Herman Body Co, (in receivership), Operated by the ALF Body Corp., Subsidiary of American LaFrance Corp. That was a small change, but an important one. Finally, still in 1958, it became ALF Herman Body Corp., Subsidiary of American LaFrance Corp. This continued in 1962, when the company ceased business.
Many tanks to Paul Koert of Lake Hiawatha, N.J. and Glen Vincent of East Hartford, CT. for their help with the production information. Any Additional Information on ALF/Herman built vehicles, corrections, additions or deletions would be greatly apprecialed. JMP
Johns List
Kings Park, N.Y. A1522-001 (02/04/59) Ford C-600
Endwell, NY A1506-001 (02/04/59) GMC-Squad
Garrett, IN A1541-001 (03/09/59 Ford F-550
Northumberland, PA 2-1-8469 (06/16/61) Ford 600 Rescue
(Marshalltown, IA) 2-1-8484 (09/10/61) Ford 700 Rescue
Clayton, DE N-973 5/11/58 GMC Rescue
(Odessa, MD) F-3134 10/16/58 Ford 750 w/500 BT
(Island Beach, CA) F-3177 2/24/59 F-800
(Plesantville, N.Y) . L-5735 3/20/59 C-900 BJC Squad Car
Boeing Airplane. Seattle F-3178 6/29/59 F-800 750 gal/500 GWT
(Lakeside CA) F-3179 10/08/59 F-800 750 gal/500 GWT
St. Mary's, PA N-776 12/10/59 Invader Booster & Hose
(App. Sales, Texas) F-3180 1/21/60 F-800
Cheektowagah, N.Y. N-925 5/28/60 D 975 SOKC
(Merrick N.Y.) N-931 9/2/60 K" engine Invader Rescue
(Glenville, N.Y.) L-5612 10/1/60 D 900 BJO Squad
Lindenhurst, N.Y. 9-1-8124 1/31/61 D 900 SOVC Rescue
Lehigton, PA 2-1-8468 4/29/61 Ford C-750 Rescue
Lock Haven, PA 2-1-8734 2/17/62 Ford Squad
* In Brackets () Questionable.
** Date in parens are photo dates,
THINGS FROM MY COLLECTION - Guest - 05-30-2012
It's sure interesting that John Peckham finally did a ALF/Herman article almost 10 years after mentioning it in his reply to my "letter to the editor" in the fall, 1990 (Vol.IV#1) issue of the PHOENIX.
It appears that more research is necessary to determine an accurate list.
Warren Jenkins
THINGS FROM MY COLLECTION - Frank B - 05-30-2012
[quote name='davepa' timestamp='1338154497' post='486272']
I HAVE THIS SAME PIECE AT SOUTH BOWERS BUT I DON'T HAVE WHO BUILT IT EITHER.
[/quote]
"One of the few that carried water. This truck had a 500 gal. booster tank. The pump panel was in the compartment just behind the jump seat on the drivers side."
(Cut from facebook)
THINGS FROM MY COLLECTION - John Kenealy - 05-30-2012
Here's the Kings Park rig, it went from there to Forestport, NY. It still had the KPFD on the door, but had some modifications done to it. Photo by Dave Lenczewski.
THINGS FROM MY COLLECTION - John Kenealy - 05-30-2012
Here is the Merrick NY rig, photographed in Hebron. Photo from my collection....from the slant it might be a Bogardus photo.
THINGS FROM MY COLLECTION - Guest - 05-30-2012
I am going to reach out to some of the members of the Pleasantville Fire Patrol to see if any can recall if the body was by Herman. I hope to hear something shortly, and will pass it along here.
THINGS FROM MY COLLECTION - Guest - 05-31-2012
here is the kings park rig here: [url="http://doyleimages.smugmug.com/Apparatus/Kings-Park-Appartatus/14465753_wFQbZs#!i=1073564355&k=SNWrh"]http://doyleimages.smugmug.com/Apparatus/Kings-Park-Appartatus/14465753_wFQbZs#!i=1073564355&k=SNWrh[/url]