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+--- Thread: St. Louis Metro (/showthread.php?tid=2077)
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St. Louis Metro - MFD76 - 12-17-2009
Mid County
Engine 45-1 (4511)
St. Louis Metro - MFD76 - 12-17-2009
Mid County Engine 45-1 (4511)
St. Louis Metro - MFD76 - 12-17-2009
West Overland
Rescue-Engine 52-1 (5214)
St. Louis Metro - MFD76 - 12-17-2009
West Overland
Rescue-Engine 52-1 (5214)
St. Louis Metro - MFD76 - 12-17-2009
West Overland
Engine 52-1 (5210)
St. Louis Metro - MFD76 - 12-17-2009
Maryland Heights
Rescue-Engine 44-1 (4414)
St. Louis Metro - MFD76 - 12-17-2009
West Overland
Ambulance 52-1 (5217)
St. Louis Metro - MFD76 - 12-17-2009
So when I posted the County photos last night. I though how could MABAS be improved. Here in Johnson County we had similar change in 2001-2002. We went from a three digit system with no clear text to a clear text system. I my Engine before the change was 620 my Truck 650 now Engine 61 and Truck 61. Our County changed for a number of reasons one was a metro wide push to standardize fire department text. This was for disaster, WMD, and Multiple Alarm fire responses. Our Truck made the big West Bottoms fire in 1999 and I remember KCFD calling what's a 650 oh yeah where a Truck Company. Our county does not designate if you carry rescue tools or not, the cad logs that info at the alarm office. So with MABAS clear text would make it easier if you respond out of the MABAS region. Now I know MABAS system is hugh in IL and Eastern Missouri you could use clear text in place of the fourth digit. So 5214 would be Rescue-Engine 52-1 or Rescue-Engine 521, 5110 would be Engine 51-1 or Engine 511, 5122 would be Quint 51-2 or Quint 512. To an outsider trying to buff I had to use the secret decoder ring to decipher the fourth digit <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
' /> Just my thoughts no harm no foul. Stay Safe,
Rick
St. Louis Metro - Guest - 12-17-2009
Looks like you had a nice trip to the Metro, Rick. Great pictures in all the threads you posted in!
The Metro wide numbering system is very easy to follow, at least to the "natives". I cant remember when the move to 4-digit was made. I want to say late 80's/early 90's, before my time or my understanding. St. Louis Metro most likely went to 4-digit to accommodate the large amount of departments in the area. St. Louis County alone has 43 departments/districts.
First 2 digits: Department ID
3rd digit: Station #
4th digit: Apparatus type
Example:
1922
19- Valley Park Fire District
2-Station 2
2-Truck Co
0-First out engine
1-Second out engine
2-Truck
3-Tanker
4-Rescue/Engine
5-Quint
6-Rescue
7-Ambulance
8-Utility/Brush/Misc
9-Boat
Only two departments in the area do not follow this: obviously St. Louis Fire Department, and Brentwood FD. Brentwood remains with 3-digit, 400's.
St. Louis Metro - Ladder 68 - 12-17-2009
The actual company Hook & Ladder Co. 06 in the 2nd Battalion, was it redesignated as H&L Co. 02 or stay as H&L Co. 06?
I ask because unless they moved quarters they are still in the 2nd correct? And with the redesignation I thought they became H&L Co. 02.
Thanks in advance.
St. Louis Metro - Guest - 12-18-2009
[quote name='Ladder 68' date='17 December 2009 - 07:02 PM' timestamp='1261096952' post='352924']
The actual company Hook & Ladder Co. 06 in the 2nd Battalion, was it redesignated as H&L Co. 02 or stay as H&L Co. 06?
I ask because unless they moved quarters they are still in the 2nd correct? And with the redesignation I thought they became H&L Co. 02.
Thanks in advance.
[/quote]
What was H&L 6 assigned downtown in district 2, has become H&L 2. The new H&L 6 is located at Florissant and Calvary on the City's far northside.
St. Louis Metro - Guest - 12-18-2009
Any truth that H&L 2 (old H&L 6) E\-One is going into reserve and the old 125' H&L 15 Smeal is going to H&L 2.
St. Louis Metro - Guest - 12-18-2009
The E\-One was renumbered h&l2 and still in service @ the 2s as of yesterday afternoon. And H&L15s piece has been renumbered 115 and is the designated spare. Which means it will probably stay downtown for the amount of time the E\-One is broken.
St. Louis Metro - Guest - 12-26-2009
Affton FPD
Medic 1117
2007 International/Braun
St. Louis Metro - MFD76 - 12-26-2009
[quote name='STLFire2494' date='18 December 2009 - 10:16 AM' timestamp='1261151794' post='353016']
The E\-One was renumbered h&l2 and still in service @ the 2s as of yesterday afternoon. And H&L15s piece has been renumbered 115 and is the designated spare. Which means it will probably stay downtown for the amount of time the E\-One is broken.
[/quote]
Any reason why they would place the newer rig in spare service and leave the E\-One in front line? Thanks in advance. Stay Safe Happy Holidays, Rick
St. Louis Metro - Guest - 12-26-2009
To the out-of-towners and the younger St. Louis area buffs who don't know the origin, St. Louis County began implementing the 4 digit numbering system in late 1989. Prior to that, some of the 42 county departments and districts shared the same numbers, though they were miles apart. A few examples: Affton and Ferguson both used the '30' series; Affton 1114 used to be 31 and Ferguson 3014 used to be 31; Mehlville 1710 used to be 21 and Berkeley 3615 was also 21 (though it was before they had the Smeal quint). Some departments/districts used 2 digits for their units and some used 3, depending on what part of the county they were in.
The 4 digit numbering system was implemented to organize things and differentiate what kind of unit was which and do away with different departments using the same numbers, as pointed out in the examples above. Now it was clear which units were pumpers, rescue pumpers, quints, rescue quints, aerials, ambulances, rescue trucks, tankers (tenders), brush trucks (wildland vehicles), boats, utility vehicles, and air cascade trucks/trailers, and from which station(s) the units were responding from.
Prior to that, some of the numbers didn't make sense. For example, Shrewsbury's pumper was 507 and the ambulance was 509. Webster Groves' pumpers were 501 and 503, and their ladder was 502. In some parts of St. Louis County, if the unit number ended with a '9' it was designated as an aerial device. So Webster 502 technically should have been 509. Clayton's aerial platform was 319, which made sense. But Mehlville's 1973 Seagrave ladder truck was Ladder 1. Frontenac's only pumper was 385 (instead of 381); Richmond Heights' only (front line) pumper was 424 (instead of 421); some ambulance numbers ended in '16','17', or '18', or '05', '06' or '07'. Ballwin's (Metro West) ambulances numbers were 326, 337 and 338, for example. So there were a mish-mash of numbers and no rhyme-or-reason as to why which numbers were used in which way, except that the different dispatch agencies numbered them that way.
The only St. Louis County department that didn't go to 4 digits was Brentwood. Their pumpers are 411 (front line) and 412 (reserve), and the ambulances are 407 (front line) and 497(reserve). Their designated St. Louis County agency number is 25. North Central Fire Alarm used to dispatch 411 as 2510 when dispatching them on a 2nd or 3rd Alarm (for example, to Mid County's district), but they no longer do that.
St. Louis Metro - Guest - 12-26-2009
great info jim. i didnt know that stuff and i was raised in the firehouse. my dad worked at creve coeur and central county used to dispatch from house one, so i had a different perspective growing up.
St. Louis Metro - Guest - 12-26-2009
Personally, I like the 4 digit numbering system and I think it makes sense. I also like it for the organizational sense that it brought about. When it was first introduced 20 years ago I thought it was horrible, having units with 4 digits instead of the "traditional" 2 or 3! But after awhile I got used to it, as did everyone else, and today, looking back at how it used to be, it definately makes more sense.
The thing is, 20 years later, most, if not all, pumpers and quints in St. Louis County carry vehicle extrication equipment, so it seems that having a '4' at the end of the unit number designating it a rescue pumper (or a '5' for a rescue quint) instead of a '0' or a '1' (or a '2' for an aerial or quint) seems a thing of the past. I guess it was "in vogue" back then, being designated as a rescue pumper or quint, because having a set of Jaws on your truck was not as common as it is today.
Below are several fire and EMS units in St. Louis County with their new and their old numbers. This list is by no means complete!
1114 - 31
1124 - 32
1134 - 33
1117 - 305
1197 - 306
1139 - Rescue 3
1100 - 301
1210 - 61
1214 - 62
1216 - Rescue 6
1200 - 601
1710 - 21
1722 - 22
1730 - 23
1760 - 26
1752 - Ladder 1
1717 - 205
1757 - 206
1727 - 207
1702 - 202
2315 - 281
2324 - 282
2317 - 286
2327 - 287
2302 - 2904
1414 - 451
2714 - 273
2114 - 424
2117 - 417
2611 - 261
2625 - 269
2624 - 263
2617 - 257
2627 - 256
1814 - 507
1817 - 509
3214 - 321
3212 - 319
3217 - 318
2024 - 503
2017 - 504
2005 - 500
2000 - CFD
3114 - 431
3414 - 441
5110 - 133
5125 - 132
5214 - 251
5217 - 248
4510 - 221
4511 - 222
2814 - 361
2817 - 356
2914 - 385
2917 - 377
3914 - 391
3917 - 386
3514 - 351
3522/3525 - 352
3312 - 339
3333 - 343
3324 - 332
3317 - 326
3337 - 338
4814 - 234
4824 - 233
4827 - 226
4015 - 12
4034 - 14
4024 - 15
4910 - 121
4920 - 122
4210 - 111
4610 - 81
4310 - 42
4414 - 243
4425 - 239
4417 - 236
3810 - 204
3822 - 209
3830 - 211
3827 - 206
3837 - 207
4714 - 91
4724 - 92
4717 - 96
3710 - 71
3720 - 72
3735 - 79
4115 - 51
4124 - 52
1610 - 41
1614 - 42
1617 - 405
1697 - 406
1914 - 51
1917 - 505
1314 - 81
1325 - 82
1334 - 83
1327 - 805
2414 - 474
2420 - 472
2417 - 486
2427 - 487
When Town and Country had their own fire department, their pumper's number was 371. Then Manchester (renamed West County EMS and Fire Dist.) took them over in 1983 and T&CFD's station became Manchester Station 3.
St. Louis Metro - Guest - 12-27-2009
thankes for posting been so long forgot some of the old numbers.
St. Louis Metro - MFD76 - 12-27-2009
[quote name='JM82' date='26 December 2009 - 09:18 PM' timestamp='1261882729' post='354324']
Personally, I like the 4 digit numbering system and I think it makes sense. I also like it for the organizational sense that it brought about. When it was first introduced 20 years ago I thought it was horrible, having units with 4 digits instead of the "traditional" 2 or 3! But after awhile I got used to it, as did everyone else, and today, looking back at how it used to be, it definately makes more sense.
The thing is, 20 years later, most, if not all, pumpers and quints in St. Louis County carry vehicle extrication equipment, so it seems that having a '4' at the end of the unit number designating it a rescue pumper (or a '5' for a rescue quint) instead of a '0' or a '1' (or a '2' for an aerial or quint) seems a thing of the past. I guess it was "in vogue" back then, being designated as a rescue pumper or quint, because having a set of Jaws on your truck was not as common as it is today.
Below are several fire and EMS units in St. Louis County with their new and their old numbers. This list is by no means complete!
1114 - 31
1124 - 32
1134 - 33
1117 - 305
1197 - 306
1139 - Rescue 3
1100 - 301
1210 - 61
1214 - 62
1216 - Rescue 6
1200 - 601
1710 - 21
1722 - 22
1730 - 23
1760 - 26
1752 - Ladder 1
1717 - 205
1757 - 206
1727 - 207
1702 - 202
2315 - 281
2324 - 282
2317 - 286
2327 - 287
2302 - 2904
1414 - 451
2714 - 273
2114 - 424
2117 - 417
2611 - 261
2625 - 269
2624 - 263
2617 - 257
2627 - 256
1814 - 507
1817 - 509
3214 - 321
3212 - 319
3217 - 318
2024 - 503
2017 - 504
2005 - 500
2000 - CFD
3114 - 431
3414 - 441
5110 - 133
5125 - 132
5214 - 251
5217 - 248
4510 - 221
4511 - 222
2814 - 361
2817 - 356
2914 - 385
2917 - 377
3914 - 391
3917 - 386
3514 - 351
3522/3525 - 352
3312 - 339
3333 - 343
3324 - 332
3317 - 326
3337 - 338
4814 - 234
4824 - 233
4827 - 226
4015 - 12
4034 - 14
4024 - 15
4910 - 121
4920 - 122
4210 - 111
4610 - 81
4310 - 42
4414 - 243
4425 - 239
4417 - 236
3810 - 204
3822 - 209
3830 - 211
3827 - 206
3837 - 207
4714 - 91
4724 - 92
4717 - 96
3710 - 71
3720 - 72
3735 - 79
4115 - 51
4124 - 52
1610 - 41
1614 - 42
1617 - 405
1697 - 406
1914 - 51
1917 - 505
1314 - 81
1325 - 82
1334 - 83
1327 - 805
2414 - 474
2420 - 472
2417 - 486
2427 - 487
When Town and Country had their own fire department, their pumper's number was 371. Then Manchester (renamed West County EMS and Fire Dist.) took them over in 1983 and T&CFD's station became Manchester Station 3.
[/quote]
Sweet thanks for the info. I always wondered about the history of the four numbers. Sounds like it works well. What is St. Louis MABAS numbers? Stay SAfe Brother, Rick