Quote:If the issue with the KME's is the engines, as opposed to the rest of the KME vehicle, why not just repower them with new engines?  Expensive sure,but cheaper than replacing so many relatively new vehicles.

Quote:Sometimes the best course of action isn't the cheapest.

 

Some things to consider:

1. Is there adequate room to accommodate a different engine or would modifications to the cab/chassis be needed?

2. Can the new engine be mated to the existing transmission without needing modifications?

3. Will modifications to the electrical/computer systems be necessary in order to monitor the new engine's diagnostics?

4. How long will it take to perform all work necessary for the engine swap?

5. What impact will the engine swap have on apparatus availability while the work is being completed?

6. Will the engine swap definitively solve the problem for sure?

7. What if they run into unforeseen issues while performing the work that adds to the cost?

8. What if they do a couple engine swaps and aren't happy with the results?  What then?

9. How much money can they get for them?

 

So, depending on the answers, there may be less short/long term headaches with biting the bullet and replacing them even if it would cost more.

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So If they sold them the new buyer would have to deal with the same issues. Which means they new buyer must get them cheap enough to fix them. I must say it seems like a new motor is alot cheaper than a new rig. Seems like they will do anything to get the new and latest and greatest carrot. 

Quote: 

 

So If they sold them the new buyer would have to deal with the same issues. Which means they new buyer must get them cheap enough to fix them. I must say it seems like a new motor is alot cheaper than a new rig. Seems like they will do anything to get the new and latest and greatest carrot. 

Quote:My reply had nothing to do with administration. It has to do with the tax payer that all administrations work for. I do not live in Boston but if my department wanted to buy all new trucks to replace less than 5 year old trucks because of bad motors I would not approve. To sell a $800,000.00 ladder 5 years old or less for $400,000.00 because you don't want to put in a $50,000.00 motor is not good money sense. I get you like how it was and want to get back to that with all purchases from this point forward, but to do a dis service to the tax payers is not warranted.

 

Also I get Boston likes E-one but im still confused as to why the KME and others dont work if you have posted it i missed it but when they say they dont work for us id like to know how.   

 

 

What does Boston hope to get with the class action law suite. If they win Navistar may just have to replace all the motors. But I dont think they will have to pay Boston the purchase price of the trucks. After all Boston had a choice in motors and they choose poorly.

 

Im glad that Boston has an administration that wants to work with the guys and get them what they need and want. If a KME breaks and it makes headline news its KME problem but also thats why you dont always buy low bidder. If you want low price thats what you get Id rather pay a little more and get a quality truck. My department was an all pierce fleet and i bet it will be a cold day in hell before we ever get another pierce. When a manufacture builds junk and wont stand behind the product we went esle where with our $$.    

Quote:So If they sold them the new buyer would have to deal with the same issues. Which means they new buyer must get them cheap enough to fix them. I must say it seems like a new motor is alot cheaper than a new rig. Seems like they will do anything to get the new and latest and greatest carrot.

Quote:How is Tower Ladder 10 doing?  I did some training with one of the Lt's from TL10 a couple months ago and he seemed pleased with it when we spoke. 

Quote:We have KME in our Dept. and the turning radius is horrible, I can only imagine what it like Boston a old city with narrow streets

Quote:$50,000 won't touch it even if they wanted to replace them. It isn't just pot it out and stick a new one in. You have to consider the other items that he mentioned in the list above. Including bolt patterns not matching up to mount the engines. Not sure how the weight compares to the Cummins engines but will there be enough extra rating to meet nfpa with a new engine? How do the newest EPA changes effect the area to mount the engine underneath the cab as it currently is built. The new engines we just received have just enough clearance for the motors specified. Now if the lawsuit is successful, how much will Boston get out of it? Hopefully enough to cover the added expense. Also, I know KME was pushing the International engines, similar to ALF pushing Caterpillars in 2007 due to the emissions that were coming. My previous department has had a ton of issues with the Caterpillars and ALF but they have (3) 2007 aerials in reserve now and only 5 frontline aerials. They had to replace the units to ensure reliability and public safety. The units were not specced with Caterpillars. it is what was bid and met the spec since we didn't have a standardized fleet of anything at the time and some dump trucks had Caterpillars that were good trucks.

Quote:So a new Cummins engine is over $50,000.00 ??? I would question the pricing on that.  That's not exactly what he said.  If you take the first couple sentences together, the implication is that the $50K (or more) mentioned is not solely the price of the engine itself, but also the labor cost to do the work and the cost of any modifications necessary to make the swap.


 

I am not sure is its an engine problem why everyone is blaming KME.  Well, some of it likely due to pre-existing bias towards KME in general, but I thought I read somewhere that KME may have had influence on the decision to select that engine vs another like Cummins.


 

Personally I don't live in Boston or care what they decide to do, they are the ones who have to explain it. But I am still not sure buying a whole new engine over just replacing the defective engines is a cheaper option.  I'm not sure if it's the cheaper option either, but like I already mentioned, the best option to fix a problem isn't necessarily the cheapest option.

Quote:Boy there sure are a lot of armchair chiefs on here in the debate of what they think Boston should be doing... Gentleman the issue is Boston Fire's issue and only there's... They know what the problem is and are fixing the problem with what is in there departments best interest... No reason to start flaming them on there decision ...  

Quote:It will be different when EMS takes them over.....