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+--- Thread: Ground Ladder Compliment (/showthread.php?tid=615)
Ground Ladder Compliment - jbang45 - 12-15-2014
We're in the final stages of specing out our tower ladder and we're running into 2 options for ground ladders that are causes some healthy arguments. First of we're a small department consisting of 6 firefighters per. We have an area of town with a lot of triple deckers(we're a northeast mill town) another area with a apartment complex (5 buildings) whihc are 3 stories. the rest of the town is a mix of ranches and colonials. Option A- 40' with poles, 35', 28',20' roof, 16' roof, 14' fresno, 10; folding.
Option B- 2-35', 2-28',20' roof, 16' roof, 14' fresno, 10; folding
Option A's supporters want it for rescue capabilities on the 3rd floor of the complexs and the triple deckers
Option B's supporters feel the 40' will take too much man power and will never be used, and feel that more 28's and 35's will fit us better operationally. and both of those ladder should reach a 3rd floor if needed.
please help! Your opinions will help and may include facts not though of.
Ground Ladder Compliment - BFD190 - 12-15-2014
Pole ladders require manpower . And constantly training on throwing them. They can be kind of a bitch but are very helpful when you can't get a truck in place. Depending on the grade around the stuctures you mentioned you may be quite surprised at what you get with a 35. My 2 cents.
Ground Ladder Compliment - Cgrave616 - 12-16-2014
I would absolutely choose option B. I work on a truck with minimum manning, the 40 is too heavy and manpower intensive... A well practiced guy can raise a 35 on his own, impossible with a pole ladder... Opt for more ladders than a 40... Good luck with the fight... our new rear mount is due in in February (2-35, 2-28, 1-24, 1-18) largest compliment available in torque box... We actually went with 2 ladder manufacturers to fit more, duo-safety for longer ladders and alcolite for shorter... Mixing compliments may get you more ladders as well...
Ground Ladder Compliment - Dickey - 12-16-2014
Option B.
Ground Ladder Compliment - chief60 - 12-16-2014
We had a similar issue, we went with 2 - 35', and a 28'. The reason was manpower as stated, a well trained firefighter can get a 35' ladder in place. We did look at the 40' ladder without poles, if you want to stick with the 40', we had no problems throwing the ladder without poles, it just took 3 guys.
Ground Ladder Compliment - johndanger - 12-16-2014
I would take option b personally. Also, I know the 14' folding ladder is NFPA required, but I would attempt to drop it if it's feasible. On one of the towers I work off of, it takes a full depth bay that could have had another 24 or 28. It's just not that useful and a Little Giant can do everything a fresno can do and more while taking up far less room (it's not fire service "rated" however.)
Ground Ladder Compliment - johndanger - 12-16-2014
Quote:I would absolutely choose option B. I work on a truck with minimum manning, the 40 is too heavy and manpower intensive... A well practiced guy can raise a 35 on his own, impossible with a pole ladder... Opt for more ladders than a 40... Good luck with the fight... our new rear mount is due in in February (2-35, 2-28, 1-24, 1-18) largest compliment available in torque box... We actually went with 2 ladder manufacturers to fit more, duo-safety for longer ladders and alcolite for shorter... Mixing compliments may get you more ladders as well...
Is that because Alco-Lites are narrower?
Ground Ladder Compliment - jbang45 - 12-16-2014
Thanks for the input, the person with the most bugles in my department has decided to disregard the committees input and won't even discuss so option a it is........ The setup it's duo safety ladders, 40' horizontal on the drivers side with the 16' and 14' horizontal above it. Folding in the middle and the 35 and 28 vertical on the officers side with the 20' roof in the fly section.
Ground Ladder Compliment - Cgrave616 - 12-18-2014
Danger, all of the ladders are on the beam in the torque box, the duo safety ladders are wider on the beam but are lighter whereas the alcolites are narrower on the beam but heavier, so we made the 35s and 1 of the 28s a duo safety because they are already heavy ladders because of their size and we made the shorter ladders alcolites because the helped us get more in while being a manageable weight.... Hopefully that makes sense
Ground Ladder Compliment - Aaronw - 12-30-2014
Quote:I would take option b personally. Also, I know the 14' folding ladder is NFPA required, but I would attempt to drop it if it's feasible. On one of the towers I work off of, it takes a full depth bay that could have had another 24 or 28. It's just not that useful and a Little Giant can do everything a fresno can do and more while taking up far less room (it's not fire service "rated" however.)I know I'm a little late to the party but...
I'm a big fan of the Little Giants. I am amazed that it isn't a more common fire service ladder, it is much more useful than the small extension ladders (what I know of as a Fresno or Mini Bangor) or the collapsing attic ladder. I think the ladder makers are missing the boat by not making a fire service rated Little Giant style ladder. At a past department we carried one over the hose bed of the engine and it saw far more use than any of our "fire service ladders".
NFPA 1901 no longer lists specific ladders, only the total combined length. There shouldn't be any issue dropping one of the smaller ladders as long as the combined length adds up. They won't include the length of the Little Giant in the complement, but minimum complements are so low these days that I can't imagine many departments actually run into issues of not meeting them.
Ground Ladder Compliment - Aaronw - 12-30-2014
Quote:Thanks for the input, the person with the most bugles in my department has decided to disregard the committees input and won't even discuss so option a it is........ The setup it's duo safety ladders, 40' horizontal on the drivers side with the 16' and 14' horizontal above it. Folding in the middle and the 35 and 28 vertical on the officers side with the 20' roof in the fly section.I'm curious, does your department already use the Bangor ladders or will this be a new addition / new skill to learn?
Ground Ladder Compliment - jbang45 - 01-23-2015
Quote:I'm curious, does your department already use the Bangor ladders or will this be a new addition / new skill to learn?It will be an addition, we currently only have a 35', 20' roof, 16' roof and a 14' extension/A-frame on our truck (24' was removed from service last year after failing inspection).
Ground Ladder Compliment - willman940 - 03-09-2015
Again late to the party.
We were told at the last UL test for our ladders they would test and rate our little giant it is the only type of folding ladder we have.
I would also say go with Duo Safety Ladders as they are lighter which helps minimum manpower.
Honestly it comes down too how much you would need that extra 5 feet. There was a similar conversation on facebook not long ago. A lot of guys said they'd only seen them used once or twice. I don't know much about your department. We have a 3 fly alco heavy 35' on our engine which is a struggle to get in place even with 2 guys. It's a bitch to throw, its a bitch to carry, and it's a bitch to get on and off the rig.