Top Mount vs. Side Mount vs.....get a load of this

[LED138]

Good evening everyone.

 

I've browsed around this site for a while and know that there are many knowledgeable members on this board. I have 22+ years in a volly Engine Co. in NNJ. My company has a committee formed to spec a new engine and proposed a new idea to the membership. Since 1985 our first due piece has been a top-mount pumper.  Due to the NFPA standards about LDH near the pump operator the committee came up with the idea to have a side mount pump with a rear mounted, electronic pump panel (in the rear most compt. on the drivers side).

 

This has stirred quite the debate within the company. The logic for the committee is that they want a 5" discharge on both sides of the apparatus. Due to the NFPA standards, age of some members climbing up and down and scene visibility they feel this is the better option. I could not find any statistics that favor one or the other but I did find plenty of statistics showing rear end collisions. Does such a statistic exist?

 

Im not against a conventional side mount but am I wrong in thinking that the rear pump panel is a horrible idea? Am I being "that guy" and thinking that we should stick with what we have because it works for us? Please let me know pros/cons.

 

Thanks everyone!

 

-Steve

[Dickey]

I am not aware of any NFPA standards that specify where the pump operator needs to be or in relation to LDH. Could you please provide that NFPA Chapter?

 

Also, I think you mean to say a 5" INTAKE on each side, not a "5" discharge" on each side of the pump, correct?

 

Either way, I was born and raised on top mount pumps. I love them better than anything. Visibility is the best and if you get it enclosed even better for a rehab area as well. If you need to see either side of the truck as far as discharges etc, its just a quick glance, you don't have to walk all the way around the truck. Side mount is ok too but I would totally avoid rear mount simply for the fact that if you do park in traffic, the operator has his/her back to the oncoming traffic. Top mount pumps make the truck a bit longer but the pros outweigh the cons in my opinion.

[LED138]

I am not aware of any NFPA standards that specify where the pump operator needs to be or in relation to LDH. Could you please provide that NFPA Chapter?

 

Also, I think you mean to say a 5" INTAKE on each side, not a "5" discharge" on each side of the pump, correct?

 

 

Either way, I was born and raised on top mount pumps. I love them better than anything. Visibility is the best and if you get it enclosed even better for a rehab area as well. If you need to see either side of the truck as far as discharges etc, its just a quick glance, you don't have to walk all the way around the truck. Side mount is ok too but I would totally avoid rear mount simply for the fact that if you do park in traffic, the operator has his/her back to the oncoming traffic. Top mount pumps make the truck a bit longer but the pros outweigh the cons in my opinion.

 

<p style="font-size:12px;background-color:rgb(247,247,247);">Dickey,

<p style="font-size:12px;background-color:rgb(247,247,247);"> 

<p style="font-size:12px;background-color:rgb(247,247,247);">From what Im being told: NFPA 1901 Section 16.7.9.1, nothing larger than 2.5" discharge.

<p style="font-size:12px;background-color:rgb(247,247,247);"> 

<p style="font-size:12px;background-color:rgb(247,247,247);">Nope, a 5" discharge on either side. I remember when we spec'd our 2001 they (the senior members) opted to go this way to minimize the piping by doing a 5" storz reduced to 2.5" on each side. 

<p style="font-size:12px;background-color:rgb(247,247,247);"> 

<p style="font-size:12px;background-color:rgb(247,247,247);">Same here, I have primarily operated top mounts and prefer them. Enclosed is not an option. As I said we are a volly company so we are doing a 10 person cab to maximize manpower.  Length isnt really a big concern. Our current engine is about 34' if I recall. I have no idea why they want to go this route. 

<p style="font-size:12px;background-color:rgb(247,247,247);"> 

<p style="font-size:12px;background-color:rgb(247,247,247);">Thanks for the reply!

<p style="font-size:12px;background-color:rgb(247,247,247);"> 

<p style="font-size:12px;background-color:rgb(247,247,247);">-Steve

 

[Juice]

I don't know much about this truck, but it sounds like the department really likes it, and seeing it at FDIC a couple of years ago, it's unique. I'd refer you to Spencer Manufacturing and the department itself.

 

http://spencerfiretrucks.com/project/del...june-2014/

[LED138]

Juice,

 

Its funny that you brought that up. Ive seen it before and like the concept, however we carry about 1800' of 5", plus another 800 of 3" and a rear preconnect so I dont think that would work.. I have also seen a top-side mount pump which I really like.

[bigjim]

Craig, Colorado has a side mount pump with all the controls in the left rear compartment.  Somewhere I have pictures, but I will have to look for them.  It is different, but its a nice layout. 

[mayer22]

Phoenix has had a similar concept to this for a hot minute...all the new quantums have a side mout panel with controls in the rear compartment. Some in the compartment immediately adjacent to the panel, some in the rear. The ALF pumpers they had were all in the rear, but it isnt that new of a concept, odd to some, but works for others

Sent from my SM-N915V using Tapatalk

[YeOldeEnjine]

I've done pump panels on just about every corner, side, and location you can think of on a rig.  No matter the location there will always be advantages and dis-advantages.

 

I've worked up a couple of what I call, "Rear Corner Top Mount Pump Panels" and I feel that a pump panel in that position offers much of the same visibility and accessibility as a traditional behind the cab top mount. BUT..  the big dis-advantage having the pump panel at the rear corner of the body with a pump located in it's traditional location behind the cab is that it puts ALL of your controls having to be powered by other means ( i.e. Electric, Hydraulic, Pneumatic) than direct linkage.

 

There are and have been several successful rear corner top mounts or (RCTM for short) from several different manufactures. It's not a really new or novel position. One of the earliest ones I saw was a Grumman pumper in the 1980's that had a RCTM panel.

 

As for main bed hose load, the RCTM is just one factor to deal with.. You need to look at requested water tank capacity, ground ladder placement, and compartmentation required before saying a certain number of feet of hose can't be done......

 

I'm fond of telling committees, you're not inventing the wheel here. Somewhere, Sometime, Somebody in the Fire Service has had the same idea or concept..... our job is to perfect or modify that idea / concept to make it work for your department.

[Dickey]

I looked up that NFPA standard....I did not know that.

 

You could get around it by having a 2 1/2" discharge with a 5" storz fitting?

[LED138]

Thanks guys for the responses. It seems as though it may be a losing battle, but wont know for sure until Monday when we do a company vote.

 

-Steve

[willman940]

Denver Colorado also tried this, if I remember correctly they were not liked.