Philadelphia question

[ECPETE]

Has anyone heard anything about them canceling the order from Pierce for the Ascendant Mid aMount Tower and signing contract with Seagrave for 3? Aerialscope 75 footers I read it in Fire Apparatus Journal They added a few more Pierce tiller’s it also said

[alex3610]

Has anyone heard anything about them canceling the order from Pierce for the Ascendant Mid aMount Tower and signing contract with Seagrave for 3? Aerialscope 75 footers I read it in Fire Apparatus Journal They added a few more Pierce tiller’s it also said

Yeah this came up on a thread about Philly TDA's in the Apparatus Scuttlebutt forum.  The word is they ordered the ascendant mid mounts and when they went up to do their pre-construction meeting it was discovered the concrete counterweight placed in the torque box (in place of a pump/tank presumably) prevented a 50' bangor ladder from fitting.  That was a significant requirement for them so they canceled the order and have since ordered 3 Aerialscopes.

[ECPETE]

Has anyone heard anything about them canceling the order from Pierce for the Ascendant Mid aMount Tower and signing contract with Seagrave for 3? Aerialscope 75 footers I read it in Fire Apparatus Journal They added a few more Pierce tiller’s it also said

Yeah this came up on a thread about Philly TDA's in the Apparatus Scuttlebutt forum.  The word is they ordered the ascendant mid mounts and when they went up to do their pre-construction meeting it was discovered the concrete counterweight placed in the torque box (in place of a pump/tank presumably) prevented a 50' bangor ladder from fitting.  That was a significant requirement for them so they canceled the order and have since ordered 3 Aerialscopes.

[chief60]

They have 4 75' Aerialscopes on order according to the latest Fire Apparatus Journal article.

[cml0774]

The Pierce tillers are junk from what I heard the where a pain in the ass to work with form the beginning. The trucks are supposed to be custom built but there pretty much the same design as Baltimore’s and others they have built in the past; unwilling to make a truck philly wanted. The tillers that have been delivered are being fixed and the three more that have been completed are being delivered. The rest of the contract is terminated and bids are now open for a new tiller contract.
The Pierce mid mount was cancelled they couldn’t fit our compliment of ground ladders; the tallest ground ladder is 45’. The pfd hasn’t carried 50’ ladders in over 10+ years.
Pfd has 4 75’ scopes on order that was the original recommendation made by the apparatus working group before they ordered the Pierce mid mount. The plain is for a total of 6 towers 2 for each division

[chief60]

Pierce had similar issues with the LA City tillers originally. It seems they struggle when it is a new/different custom designed unit. It is a shame. They are a bit inflexible when you want truly custom items that don't fit their general body designs. I'm not sure where Philly will go other than Spartan since they have the trailer design they are looking for, I am just concerned how long they will be around. I think we are in for some more consolidation and manufacturers going away.

[cml0774]

I would like them to go back to the KME tillers the last one they made for ladder8 got a raised roof added and some modifications to the tiller body

[chief60]

They went out to bid for new tillers. If I had to bet, they will get a Spartan chassis with an LTC body identical to the other LTIs they have. The spec even states it wants them as close to those as possible. If they accept the design and test the unit, they will buy more. The spec has some unusual features including it has to be delivered and tested by the department with the full equipment load and crew. Axles have to be weighed individually with full load at Philadelphia. They must have had some significant issues with the Pierces and the design/compartment layout.

[cml0774]

They went out to bid for new tillers. If I had to bet, they will get a Spartan chassis with an LTC body identical to the other LTIs they have. The spec even states it wants them as close to those as possible. If they accept the design and test the unit, they will buy more. The spec has some unusual features including it has to be delivered and tested by the department with the full equipment load and crew. Axles have to be weighed individually with full load at Philadelphia. They must have had some significant issues with the Pierces and the design/compartment layout.

Not a fan of the spartan cabs; cramped back step.
Plenty of issues with the Pierce tillers

[chief60]

They went out to bid for new tillers. If I had to bet, they will get a Spartan chassis with an LTC body identical to the other LTIs they have. The spec even states it wants them as close to those as possible. If they accept the design and test the unit, they will buy more. The spec has some unusual features including it has to be delivered and tested by the department with the full equipment load and crew. Axles have to be weighed individually with full load at Philadelphia. They must have had some significant issues with the Pierces and the design/compartment layout.

Not a fan of the spartan cabs; cramped back step.
Plenty of issues with the pierce tillers

It looks like they want the Metro Star 94" cab. The Arrow XT is 94" as well so either Pierce fixes the trailer design issues or its going to be the Spartan, unless they ignore their very tight specs. Basically, it states build us a tiller like we want it and then we will load it and test run it and if we like it, we will pay for it. I am very interested to see how much the price goes up from the current Pierces to this one.

[cml0774]

They went out to bid for new tillers. If I had to bet, they will get a Spartan chassis with an LTC body identical to the other LTIs they have. The spec even states it wants them as close to those as possible. If they accept the design and test the unit, they will buy more. The spec has some unusual features including it has to be delivered and tested by the department with the full equipment load and crew. Axles have to be weighed individually with full load at Philadelphia. They must have had some significant issues with the Pierces and the design/compartment layout.

Not a fan of the spartan cabs; cramped back step.
Plenty of issues with the pierce tillers

It looks like they want the Metro Star 94" cab. The Arrow XT is 94" as well so either Pierce fixes the trailer design issues or its going to be the Spartan, unless they ignore their very tight specs. Basically, it states build us a tiller like we want it and then we will load it and test run it and if we like it, we will pay for it. I am very interested to see how much the price goes up from the current Pierces to this one.

The KME tillers where pretty much the same spec as the Alf/lti they where getting

[chief60]

They went out to bid for new tillers. If I had to bet, they will get a Spartan chassis with an LTC body identical to the other LTIs they have. The spec even states it wants them as close to those as possible. If they accept the design and test the unit, they will buy more. The spec has some unusual features including it has to be delivered and tested by the department with the full equipment load and crew. Axles have to be weighed individually with full load at Philadelphia. They must have had some significant issues with the Pierces and the design/compartment layout.

Not a fan of the spartan cabs; cramped back step.
Plenty of issues with the pierce tillers

It looks like they want the Metro Star 94" cab. The Arrow XT is 94" as well so either Pierce fixes the trailer design issues or its going to be the Spartan, unless they ignore their very tight specs. Basically, it states build us a tiller like we want it and then we will load it and test run it and if we like it, we will pay for it. I am very interested to see how much the price goes up from the current Pierces to this one.

The kme tillers where pretty much the same spec as the Alf/lti they where getting

KME doesn't have a 94" cab, so they have limited their choices to the Spartan Metrostar and Pierce Arrow XT or they take exception to their own bid requirements.

[alex3610]

The Arrow XT are 96" wide cabs (As are the Enforcer, Saber, and Quantum). KME builds the severe service chassis with a 96" wide cab and I _think_ the Panther is a 96" cab as well. The Metro Star is indeed 94" while the Gladiator from Spartan is 100". A Metro Star however can only do up to an L9/450hp engine (unless that has changed recently. I believe but am not 100% sure that KME can do an X12/500 in their 96" wide cab and Pierce does X12/X15 and DD13's in the Arrow XT, Enforcer and Quantum. While we're at it, Seagrave Marauder II is 96" wide an accepts all the large displacement motors as well.

[cml0774]

The Arrow XT are 96" wide cabs (As are the Enforcer, Saber, and Quantum).  KME builds the severe service chassis with a 96" wide cab and I _think_ the Panther is a 96" cab as well.  The Metro Star is indeed 94" while the Gladiator from Spartan is 100".  A Metro Star however can only do up to an L9/450hp engine (unless that has changed recently.  I believe but am not 100% sure that KME can do an X12/500 in their 96" wide cab and Pierce does X12/X15 and DD13's in the Arrow XT, Enforcer and Quantum.  While we're at it, Seagrave Marauder II is 96" wide an accepts all the large displacement motors as well.

The KME ss we have is 100” that’s why they only got the 4 tillers

[LeadOff]

The Arrow XT are 96" wide cabs (As are the Enforcer, Saber, and Quantum).  KME builds the severe service chassis with a 96" wide cab and I _think_ the Panther is a 96" cab as well.  The Metro Star is indeed 94" while the Gladiator from Spartan is 100".  A Metro Star however can only do up to an L9/450hp engine (unless that has changed recently.  I believe but am not 100% sure that KME can do an X12/500 in their 96" wide cab and Pierce does X12/X15 and DD13's in the Arrow XT, Enforcer and Quantum.  While we're at it, Seagrave Marauder II is 96" wide an accepts all the large displacement motors as well.

The Arrow XT cab is 94-3/4" wide, not 96".

[alex3610]

The Arrow XT are 96" wide cabs (As are the Enforcer, Saber, and Quantum).  KME builds the severe service chassis with a 96" wide cab and I _think_ the Panther is a 96" cab as well.  The Metro Star is indeed 94" while the Gladiator from Spartan is 100".  A Metro Star however can only do up to an L9/450hp engine (unless that has changed recently.  I believe but am not 100% sure that KME can do an X12/500 in their 96" wide cab and Pierce does X12/X15 and DD13's in the Arrow XT, Enforcer and Quantum.  While we're at it, Seagrave Marauder II is 96" wide an accepts all the large displacement motors as well.

The Arrow XT cab is 94-3/4" wide, not 96".

Oops.  You are correct.  The Enforcer / Saber / Quantum are the 96ers.

[JakeF]

Spartan offers the X12/500hp in the Metrostar now.

[Reliance]

https://www.fireapparatusmagazine.com/20...opic=57409

Philadelphia orders 8 Spartan pumpers & 4 100' LTI TDAs.