St. Louis Metro

[Guest]

The city wanted to cut manpower and equipment, so the CFD at the time, decided to implement this idea. For the duration of this practice, there were not designated "Truck" Companies and "Engine" companies. Depending on their arrival order, a quint could be used as an engine, or used for Truck duties, or back up water. We had 30 Quints. in 1988, split as 15 55ft Pierce Telesquirts and 15 75ft LTI's. A bond issue was passed in the 90 and 30 Smeal 75 ft quints were ordered and served until 2011, when it was decided to go away from this practice. We now have 9 Smeal Engines  (1,2,8,23,24,26,28,31,32) and the rest are the 2000 Smeals, which are now called Trucks (4,5,7,10,11,14,19,20,22,27,30,34,35,36) with several being refurbed (6,9,13,17,29,33).

 

When an engine is out of service, they switch into a Smeal 75ft. and have to change their radio call sign from ex Engine 2 will be Truck 2.

Trucks 5 and 36 are shut down almost everyday because of manpower, and they are double houses.

 

Hook and Ladders 1,2,3,5,6

 

Squads 1 and 2

 

Operate out of 6 battalions.

[firechief14]

what morons! Matt private message me i would like to do a patch and shirt trade if you would like to. Thanks Rob FRFPD Safety officer

 

The city wanted to cut manpower and equipment, so the CFD at the time, decided to implement this idea. For the duration of this practice, there were not designated "Truck" Companies and "Engine" companies. Depending on their arrival order, a quint could be used as an engine, or used for Truck duties, or back up water. We had 30 Quints. in 1988, split as 15 55ft Pierce Telesquirts and 15 75ft LTI's. A bond issue was passed in the 90 and 30 Smeal 75 ft quints were ordered and served until 2011, when it was decided to go away from this practice. We now have 9 Smeal Engines  (1,2,8,23,24,26,28,31,32) and the rest are the 2000 Smeals, which are now called Trucks (4,5,7,10,11,14,19,20,22,27,30,34,35,36) with several being refurbed (6,9,13,17,29,33).

 

When an engine is out of service, they switch into a Smeal 75ft. and have to change their radio call sign from ex Engine 2 will be Truck 2.

Trucks 5 and 36 are shut down almost everyday because of manpower, and they are double houses.

 

Hook and Ladders 1,2,3,5,6

 

Squads 1 and 2

 

Operate out of 6 battalions.

[Guest]

holy shit....what was the manning on the quints? u said they still had regular 100' trucks right?...quint concept works so long as u have 5 or more assigned....lol....JMO

[ff002]

what morons! Matt private message me i would like to do a patch and shirt trade if you would like to. Thanks Rob FRFPD Safety officer

I don't want to step out of line here, but you need to hear the whole story (not implying anything has been left out on purpose but it was a short synopsis)

My understanding was that St Louis was running three guys on ladders and  pumps. With the quint concept they went to every company having four members, new rigs all around, jaws on all rigs, stations rebuilt and renovated.(please, please correct me if wrong...) I don't know what the economy was like at the time, but three on a rig in a city enviroment scares me.

Hands down, I believe the best option is separate Engines and ladders, but desperate fiscal times sometimes means our leaders make hard decisions (and sometimes those decisions go completely against everything firefighters have been taught and hold dear)

 

However, I don't think it will ever change that firefighters want more/same number of trucks and men and city managers are told to save money so taxes don't go up. But I don't think the chiefs and managers are morons....they are just doing their job just like us blue shirts. Its just that we see the human repercussions of their decisions and it's brutally hard for us to take....

[Guest]

4 man quints, 4 man H&L's, 6 man Squads. Same manning today.

 

The H&Ls were 100'+

We have 2 100' platforms and 3 125' sticks.

[FireMedic049]

holy shit....what was the manning on the quints? u said they still had regular 100' trucks right?...quint concept works so long as u have 5 or more assigned....lol....JMO

What definition of "quint concept" are you referring to?  St. Louis went to what was referred to as the "Total Quint Concept" (TQC).  As implemented, each quint responded and operated on each call as either an engine company OR a truck company.  Since the 4-man engine and truck companies are more or less the accepted minimum for company staffing levels and the quint companies operated as an engine or truck at calls, then why would they need more staffing than what would be assigned to a single role unit?

 

Now, if you are referring to the use of a quint company in both engine AND truck company roles at the same incident, then obviously they would need to have additional staffing to have any chance at being as effective as 2 seperate companies.

 

Additionally, it takes more than just a staffing number to make the use of quints work.

[Guest]

agreed....and i was talking about the second concept using them to do BOTH....thus having the cost savings etc but being able to function on a fireground as both and engine and a truck....thank you....i always thought it was an interesting concept....but it seems like you said they have gotten away from this and back to a more traditional layout.....who made the 125' trucks?

[Guest]

With the exception of the rescue squads, every engine  - truck - hook & ladder in St. Louis are Smeals with Spartan chassis. Squads are Spartan/SVI. Smeals period, nothing else. Everything runs with 4, sometimes but not very often 5, never 3. Both squads run with 6.

[fyrfoto]

With the exception of the rescue squads, every engine  - truck - hook & ladder in St. Louis are Smeals with Spartan chassis. Squads are Spartan/SVI. Smeals period, nothing else. Everything runs with 4, sometimes but not very often 5, never 3. Both squads run with 6.

Arent there Pierce and LTI reserves? 

[MFD76]

Saint Charles, Missouri Fire Department

Engine 

Radio# 9490

12/2012

#25964

Pierce Dash CF/ PUC

1500/750

 



 

IMO: It still baffles me that departments are paying for a non functioning grill. Instead of the traditional true fire engine look of no grill. 

 

Surprised to see the extremely tall hose bed for an urban city like Saint Charles. 

 

[Roto-Ray]

Saint Charles, Missouri Fire Department

Engine 

Radio# 9490

12/2012

#25964

Pierce Dash CF/ PUC

1500/750

 

 

 

IMO: It still baffles me that departments are paying for a non functioning grill. Instead of the traditional true fire engine look of no grill. 

 

Surprised to see the extremely tall hose bed for an urban city like Saint Charles. 

 

One the couple that I've seen come out of the factory, the grill-less Dash CF's have an E\-One Hurricane look, not quite as traditional as one may have expected.

[MFD76]

One the couple that I've seen come out of the factory, the grill-less Dash CF's have an E-One Hurricane look, not quite as traditional as one may have expected.

I do agree Taylor they have a Hurricane look. I really liked the demo PUC ladder last year at FDIC with the stainless band, it really brought back memories of the Arrow. 

[Guest]

Thats not a bad looking rig going to St Charles. Do you know if they bought it to be a designated spare? The numbering indicates it as a reserve piece.

[Guest]

I'm not sure if this is 9440 with the 9490 number plate on it instead or what. There's a picture of a St. Charles Fire Department Dash CF identical to this one on the Pierce Flickr Photostream website with the number plate 9440 on it. I've heard that they are taking delivery of another Dash CF like this one for 9450, and that the current 9450, a Pierce Saber demo that's only about 2 years old, will become a reserve rig. Rumor has it that they are looking to replace the Smeal aerial platform, 9412, with a Pierce platform.

[FireMedic049]

agreed....and i was talking about the second concept using them to do BOTH....thus having the cost savings etc but being able to function on a fireground as both and engine and a truck....thank you....i always thought it was an interesting concept....but it seems like you said they have gotten away from this and back to a more traditional layout.....who made the 125' trucks?

It is my understanding that they are operating in more of a hybid model than reverting back to a traditional engine and truck deployment model.  I believe the small quints (aka Trucks) are still being utilized in the same fashion as before - taking on engine or truck duties depending on order of arrival.  The units operating with the new engines assume the appropriate engine company role based on their order of arrival relative to other "engine" units.  I'm not sure if these units ever assume a non-aerial related "truck role" on scene.

 

From what I recall of past posts, the partial switch to non-quint units was driven in part by economics rather than wanting to abondon TQC.  I think the new engines were assigned to high run companies with the intent of being less costly to run than a quint for the number of medical calls being run and also less costly to purchase given the current economic climate.  However, considering how big they appear to be, I'm not sure if they are seeing significant savings with their usage.

[firechief14]

I don't want to step out of line here, but you need to hear the whole story (not implying anything has been left out on purpose but it was a short synopsis)

My understanding was that St Louis was running three guys on ladders and  pumps. With the quint concept they went to every company having four members, new rigs all around, jaws on all rigs, stations rebuilt and renovated.(please, please correct me if wrong...) I don't know what the economy was like at the time, but three on a rig in a city enviroment scares me.

Hands down, I believe the best option is separate Engines and ladders, but desperate fiscal times sometimes means our leaders make hard decisions (and sometimes those decisions go completely against everything firefighters have been taught and hold dear)

 

However, I don't think it will ever change that firefighters want more/same number of trucks and men and city managers are told to save money so taxes don't go up. But I don't think the chiefs and managers are morons....they are just doing their job just like us blue shirts. Its just that we see the human repercussions of their decisions and it's brutally hard for us to take....

Let me correct somethings here. I fully agree with the stlfd and have many friends that are active on the stlfd and some that have retired. This being said St louis city and county is a very happening area as far as public safety. Cutting police,fire.ems is the dumbest thing that can be done. In a way to save money park the damn street sweepers or have public works take furlough days. The town that i used to live in had a 76 Pierce ladder that was rehabed in the late 90's and was set to be replaced in the late 90's. The truck was still in service in 2003 because the then mayor used the money that was being saved up through med runs into a fund for equipment the mayor decided to put in retaining walls and flower pots instead of buying a new ladder truck for a city of 26,000 people. The poloticians need to open their eyes and realize that people who die in fires cant vote.

[MFD76]

When appointed a few years ago Fire Chief David Hall stated he would return RED to the Springfield Fire Department. After thirty five years of lime green four new RED engines have been delivered. Over the years members of SFD had asked for RED apparatus however previous administrations did not desire to switch.  These are well thought out basic engines with heavy duty features for the urban environment.  
 
 
Springfield, Missouri Fire Department
Engine 2
#13530
09/2012
Spartan/ General Rosenbauer
1500/750/30FA CAFS
one of four
 

 

Engine 1,2,4,9 are receiving the new pumpers. They are planning a parade on 02-15-13 enroute Fire House Six for a press conference to introduce the new pumpers. Neat to see they are proud of the renewed RED paint. 

[Guest]

T17 put their refurb in service last week. Looks like the rest of the rehabbed 2000 smeals with the updates. Try to get a photo of it soon.

[ENGINE_4]

Does anyone have any photo's of the new Smeal Engines?!?!?! in particular the EHL hose load? I really love what St. Louis has done in designing these new Engines. It is very hard to find pictures of them on the internet working at a fire scene though    .

[Guest]

Just go through some of the STL Fire Scene photos. you will find plenty. Also, if you have FaceySpacey, like FirstAlarmphotos Stl  and you'll get your fill.

 

 

The EGH is fine, until the hosebed gets stuck and you have to have a forklift push the bed back in. Or you have to drive to the shop with the hosebed sticking out. Also sometimes takes literally minutes for the hosebed to extend and lower and then to raise and retract.