Rosenbauer Minnesota Trip - February 2013

[Roto-Ray]

Here is how St Lucia did their hose dividers in the D3 compartment.

 

[Roto-Ray]

Another shot of the high-dollar, huge, polished booster reels in the rear compartment of the Apopka engine.

 

Note the lighted steps on the right side of the compartment.

[Roto-Ray]

We thought that this was a neat feature.  This department runs a pre-connected BlitzFire off the rear.  That in itself isn't that unusual, however, the BlitzFire sits on the rear hosebed floor, with a "ramp" that keeps the hose stored above it.  We're considering something similar for our pumper.

[Roto-Ray]

One of the ways that Rosenbauer can control cost on cab production is to have a single cab width and design for both big-block and medium-block engines.  Because we're getting a medium block, they're able to notch the back of the engine tunnel as seen on this pumper that will go to Savage, MN.  Instead of mounting a seat here like Savage did, we're putting a rear-facing compartment in this location.

 

We spent a lot of time in and on both the Savage and Apopka rigs as we refined our ideas.

 

 

[Roto-Ray]

Dinner time!   I still have four or five construction photos to post later this evening.

 

As always, thanks for looking.

[hank]

Good photos!

 

tHANKs

[Ladder 68]

Agreed...General does build a damn good extruded aluminum body.

[Guest]

We have 9 pumpers in service several all are at busy companies that run between 2000-3000 runs. I drive one everyday and the biggest issues we have had are Spartan problems. Great rigs to work off of well built I will glady put it up against the big boys anytime.

[Roto-Ray]

Looks like I have only two more photos to share.

 

These show a wheelwell air bottle storage area.  Note how they're inserted into both the front and the back of the vertical and horizontal extrusions, providing additional strength.

 

I look forward to posting delivery photos in this thread in a few months...

[firetdriver_99]

Nice rigs but I was just curious did anyone ever say why those Apopka, FL. units needed 2 booster reels in the back or 3 stage pumps, I would assume that a 2 stage would be sufficient to run 2 booster reels even with a CAF's system?

[FireMedic049]

Nice rigs but I was just curious did anyone ever say why those Apopka, FL. units needed 2 booster reels in the back or 3 stage pumps, I would assume that a 2 stage would be sufficient to run 2 booster reels even with a CAF's system?

Not sure on the 3 stage pump part, but my guess on having 2 booster reels is that they probably see a bit of "brush fire" type work and want the ability to deploy 2 lines rather than 1.

[grubber33270]

any additional photos of the Savage Engine? Also did you happen to see the Chicago Squads up there at all?

[Roto-Ray]

Afraid I don't have any of the Savage engine, sorry, it was still very much under construction. Chicago was up there for their per-construction conference at the same time we were - their rigs are going to be months away, much like ours.

[firetdriver_99]

Not sure on the 3 stage pump part, but my guess on having 2 booster reels is that they probably see a bit of "brush fire" type work and want the ability to deploy 2 lines rather than 1.

 

Thanks. Your probably right I looked up where the city is at in Florida and they seem to be right in the middle where they have been having alot of brush and forest fire's so your probably right on that. We are looking at a timberwolf type vehicle for future purchase for the same reason and it will probably have 2 boosters on it, but at a different location since our pump will be in the back. But we will be using a 2 stage pump with high pressure foam.

[Guest]

Thanks. Your probably right I looked up where the city is at in Florida and they seem to be right in the middle where they have been having alot of brush and forest fire's so your probably right on that. We are looking at a timberwolf type vehicle for future purchase for the same reason and it will probably have 2 boosters on it, but at a different location since our pump will be in the back. But we will be using a 2 stage pump with high pressure foam.

I can not say exactly what their Fire call load is of any types.... but I will say that is a LOT of tax dollars being spent on a rig that is only staffed with 2 people.. yes, 2!!! as I last spoke with an Apopka Lt, they run 4, 2man engines, 1, 2 man tower which cross staffs their Rescue, 4, 2 man ambulances, a 1 man Battalion and have a "Squad" which is an SUV with 4 men in it, that does a lot of inspector work during the day also running calls as a man power unit. it's a joke in my opinion and NOT safe at all.

[johndanger]

I can not say exactly what their Fire call load is of any types.... but I will say that is a LOT of tax dollars being spent on a rig that is only staffed with 2 people.. yes, 2!!! as I last spoke with an Apopka Lt, they run 4, 2man engines, 1, 2 man tower which cross staffs their Rescue, 4, 2 man ambulances, a 1 man Battalion and have a "Squad" which is an SUV with 4 men in it, that does a lot of inspector work during the day also running calls as a man power unit. it's a joke in my opinion and NOT safe at all.

 

What exactly is a joke about that? Busy urban and suburban departments around the country run with two or even one man crews. If anything is a joke it's what the politicians expect us to do with that staffing. But purchasing a rig that fits the department's needs (barring extraneous lighting packages) is never a joke or a waste of money.

[Guest]

I can not say exactly what their Fire call load is of any types.... but I will say that is a LOT of tax dollars being spent on a rig that is only staffed with 2 people.. yes, 2!!! as I last spoke with an Apopka Lt, they run 4, 2man engines, 1, 2 man tower which cross staffs their Rescue, 4, 2 man ambulances, a 1 man Battalion and have a "Squad" which is an SUV with 4 men in it, that does a lot of inspector work during the day also running calls as a man power unit. it's a joke in my opinion and NOT safe at all.

 

I would guess if it's a waste depends on how you look at the money being spent.

 

For this department my educated guess since I don't know them, would be that they hope to be able to fund more FF's in the future.  They look to be in metro Orlando area so I would think it would be possible to justify the need and possibly a plan to fund them.  If that's the case it's a hell of lot more affordable to purchase for 4 man crew now then to trade in trucks in the future on bigger rigs.  Not sure how many years they keep the rigs but the longer they keep them the more likely this thinking is.

 

One other thing if they have an apparatus fund, those funds for apparatus can't be used to fund firefighters or redirected to anything but apparatus purchases. (At least up here in Michigan)  In that case as long as they don't have other apparatus need's going unfunded they should use them to buy the best product they can with the funds they have.  (Note: I did not say the most expensive they can afford)

 

Just my opinion.

 

Kris 

[FireMedic049]

I can not say exactly what their Fire call load is of any types.... but I will say that is a LOT of tax dollars being spent on a rig that is only staffed with 2 people.. yes, 2!!! as I last spoke with an Apopka Lt, they run 4, 2man engines, 1, 2 man tower which cross staffs their Rescue, 4, 2 man ambulances, a 1 man Battalion and have a "Squad" which is an SUV with 4 men in it, that does a lot of inspector work during the day also running calls as a man power unit. it's a joke in my opinion and NOT safe at all.

Exactly what is the problem with these vehicles in relation to being staffed with only 2 firefighters?

 

 

Speaking from experience, a 2 man engine, although no where close to being ideal, is not necessarily the "joke" that you think it is.  Depending on the community and common types of calls, 2 man units can handle the vast majority of calls without problem or being "unsafe".  Although a first arriving unit with only 2 firefighters at a structure fire presents certain limitations on what can be done safely and efficiently, the bigger staffing question is how many firefighters in total are you putting on the fireground and how quickly can that happen?

 

The NFPA 1710 standard for (initial) fireground staffing is 15-17 firefighters arriving within 8 minutes.  If a department can meet this standard or come very close, does it specifially matter that they arrive in 3-4 vehicles vs. 6-7 vehicles? 

[firetdriver_99]

I can not say exactly what their Fire call load is of any types.... but I will say that is a LOT of tax dollars being spent on a rig that is only staffed with 2 people.. yes, 2!!! as I last spoke with an Apopka Lt, they run 4, 2man engines, 1, 2 man tower which cross staffs their Rescue, 4, 2 man ambulances, a 1 man Battalion and have a "Squad" which is an SUV with 4 men in it, that does a lot of inspector work during the day also running calls as a man power unit. it's a joke in my opinion and NOT safe at all.

 

Well if its only staffed by two then I can see why its so decked out with CAF's and booster reels to make it easier on the two people who have to operate it. As far as waste in my opinion in today's economy of you can get the money out of them "go for it" so I am all in favor of them loading it down. Whoever got the money must be gifted so I am happy for them, they are good looking units.

 

Although I am still a little confused on the 3 stage pump, that one has me stumped as to why they would need a 3 stage.

[kammrk]

Miami-Dade has awarded (7) Commander pumper's that are scheduled for build this month, they will have a much lower hose bed than we have traditionally specced with a 1 1/2" booster line in the rear compt. 750 tank 1500 gpm, Commander cab with extended rear portion of cab, they look to be pretty sharp hopefully will see the first one this august with add on's for maybe (7) more. Apopka is a suburb of Orlando in Seminole county a bedroom community basically,  they may run some 2 & 3 man engine's but they respond the 2 man paramedic rig with them on most all alarm's as they are attached to the engine complimenting the engine as a 5 or 4 man company, that is how most smaller dept's. here fla. make do.