This & That from Here & There

[GA_Dave]

Engine 253, Ashville, AL

1996 Freightliner FL-80/Ferrara

1250/750

#BR-656

 

x-Palm Beach County, FL

[GA_Dave]

Engine 251, Ashville, AL

2014 Ford F-550/Fouts Brothers

1250/300

[GA_Dave]

Service Truck 271, Ashville, AL

2002 International 4300/1993 Hackney

#93M0124

[KelvinCarterJr34]

Engine 252, Ashville, AL

1999 International 4900/Pierce

1250/750

#EC-445

 

X-Clermont, Florida.

[GA_Dave]

Today I attended a demonstration/showing of the new Pierce Ascendant aerial.  Even though I have retired, I am still involved with my FD's purchase of our new Quint 3, which has been in the process for 4 years.  Ground should be broken for the new Station in the next couple months.  We wrote the specs 4 years ago, but since this is a new product, we wanted to check it out.  It's a nice concept and a nice ladder, but overall, not suited to the needs of our department.  We'll be sticking with what we've been working on.

 

2014 Pierce Enforcer

1500/500/107'

#28109

[Image7801]

Today I attended a demonstration/showing of the new Pierce Ascendant aerial.  Even though I have retired, I am still involved with my FD's purchase of our new Quint 3, which has been in the process for 4 years.  Ground should be broken for the new Station in the next couple months.  We wrote the specs 4 years ago, but since this is a new product, we wanted to check it out.  It's a nice concept and a nice ladder, but overall, not suited to the needs of our department.  We'll be sticking with what we've been working on.

 

2014 Pierce Enforcer

1500/500/107'

#28109

Pierce's answer to E\-One's Metro 100, I presume?

[AFD Prescott]

Dave, I was told that this thing cannot carry very much equipment due to the weight of a steel aerial, and the pump and tank on board already, it can only carry 2800 lbs. Of equipment/hose/tools did you hear that same figure?

[GA_Dave]

Dave, I was told that this thing cannot carry very much equipment due to the weight of a steel aerial, and the pump and tank on board already, it can only carry 2800 lbs. Of equipment/hose/tools did you hear that same figure?

According to the brochure, which features this same truck, the equipment capacity is 2500 pounds plus another 100 pounds of equipment on the aerial (such as a roof ladder, axe, pike pole, etc).  It's not so much a weight capacity issue as a space capacity issue for my FD.  There just isn't enough compartment space to carry all we need to carry.  I also have a blueprint of the Ascendant P.U.C., and the compartment space isn't much different.  The Ascendant's wheelbase is about 242" and the rig we are looking at is 230".  Since we have a 100' platform, we don't feel the need for a 107' stick, a 75' will work just fine, since this is going to primarily function as an EMS response pumper.  The shorter wheelbase will give it the maneuverability we need.  We just felt we should check the Ascendant out so we didn't overlook a rig that could have better suited us.  The Ascendant could be an excellent choice for many departments.

[firescooby]

According to the brochure, which features this same truck, the equipment capacity is 2500 pounds plus another 100 pounds of equipment on the aerial (such as a roof ladder, axe, pike pole, etc).  It's not so much a weight capacity issue as a space capacity issue for my FD.  There just isn't enough compartment space to carry all we need to carry.  I also have a blueprint of the Ascendant P.U.C., and the compartment space isn't much different.  The Ascendant's wheelbase is about 242" and the rig we are looking at is 230".  Since we have a 100' platform, we don't feel the need for a 107' stick, a 75' will work just fine, since this is going to primarily function as an EMS response pumper.  The shorter wheelbase will give it the maneuverability we need.  We just felt we should check the Ascendant out so we didn't overlook a rig that could have better suited us.  The Ascendant could be an excellent choice for many departments.

What about a Sutphen 75'? 220" wheelbase and 39' overall length?

[chief60]

You will need to start planning a trip back to the coast, Lots of new apparatus here and more coming. Savannah has two Sutphen 100' mid mount aerials, another on order, a rescue squad, and a fireboat. Bluffton has a new tower and looking to replace all frontline engines (bid is awaiting award), we will be ordering 4 engines and a 100" tiller, garden city is adding on to our engine contract for 1, maybe 2 and they have a new tanker on order (Freightliner/Fouts 3000 gallon), Effingham County has 2 new used engines inservice and Springfield has merged with Effingham and have a few cool military conversions they have done, finally Rincon has several used trucks they have gotten as well.

[GA_Dave]

You will need to start planning a trip back to the coast, Lots of new apparatus here and more coming. Savannah has two Sutphen 100' mid mount aerials, another on order, a rescue squad, and a fireboat. Bluffton has a new tower and looking to replace all frontline engines (bid is awaiting award), we will be ordering 4 engines and a 100" tiller, garden city is adding on to our engine contract for 1, maybe 2 and they have a new tanker on order (Freightliner/Fouts 3000 gallon), Effingham County has 2 new used engines inservice and Springfield has merged with Effingham and have a few cool military conversions they have done, finally Rincon has several used trucks they have gotten as well.

Thanks for the update, you might see me this fall.

[e11ramfireman]

Dave, I was told that this thing cannot carry very much equipment due to the weight of a steel aerial, and the pump and tank on board already, it can only carry 2800 lbs. Of equipment/hose/tools did you hear that same figure?

I believe the NFPA minimum for loose equipment is 2500lbs, do not believe that includes water, hose, or personnel but does include air packs.  Either way I compared the weights of the 107' to a Pierce Aluminum 75' that both had the same motor, same generator, very similar axle and total gvwr ratings, and same size pump and 500 water and believe it or not the weights are pretty close, the curb weight on both of these with water but no personnel or loose equipment was 9500lbs shy of their overall gross vehicle weight rating for the 75' and 9655lbs shy for the 107'.  I think the issues w/ the 107 are right in line w/ the issues you already see w/ 75' single axle quints, you cannot put all you would like to on them because of less compartment space as well as the weight of the stuff you add adds up quickly and the buyer needs to be aware of that ahead of time or they can overweigh the rigs.....its the same problem w/ the mini-pumpers on F-550 chassis that Fire Apparatus Magazine touched on a few months back, they are too easy to overload and if you want to put all the stuff a full size pumper carries on them you will overload them.  If you want to put all the stuff a pumper and all the stuff a truck carries on one of these 107 or 75' quints, you'll overload them.  I was told the 107' aerial device and its associated components itself when designed weighs 4,000 lbs less then the 105' and is a comparable weight to the 75's Pierce produces.  If weight and compartment space will definitely be a concern for the customer on the 107' I am also told it will be available on a tandem rear axle so that will gain you some more ground.  

[GA_Dave]

I believe the NFPA minimum for loose equipment is 2500lbs, do not believe that includes water, hose, or personnel but does include air packs.  Either way I compared the weights of the 107' to a Pierce Aluminum 75' that both had the same motor, same generator, very similar axle and total gvwr ratings, and same size pump and 500 water and believe it or not the weights are pretty close, the curb weight on both of these with water but no personnel or loose equipment was 9500lbs shy of their overall gross vehicle weight rating for the 75' and 9655lbs shy for the 107'.  I think the issues w/ the 107 are right in line w/ the issues you already see w/ 75' single axle quints, you cannot put all you would like to on them because of less compartment space as well as the weight of the stuff you add adds up quickly and the buyer needs to be aware of that ahead of time or they can overweigh the rigs.....its the same problem w/ the mini-pumpers on F-550 chassis that Fire Apparatus Magazine touched on a few months back, they are too easy to overload and if you want to put all the stuff a full size pumper carries on them you will overload them.  If you want to put all the stuff a pumper and all the stuff a truck carries on one of these 107 or 75' quints, you'll overload them.  I was told the 107' aerial device and its associated components itself when designed weighs 4,000 lbs less then the 105' and is a comparable weight to the 75's Pierce produces.  If weight and compartment space will definitely be a concern for the customer on the 107' I am also told it will be available on a tandem rear axle so that will gain you some more ground.  

You summed it up well.  One of the most important things is that the FD needs to understand the limits of each apparatus and plan their purchases to match the correct apparatus to their needs.  The Ascendant is not for everyone, but will meet the needs of some FD perfectly.  Same with 75' quints on single-axle chassis, they are not for everybody, but can be perfect for some.  I believe my FD is on the right track with the new Quint 3 plans.

 

You mentioned mini pumpers, which were all the rage about 30-40 years ago, but fell out of favor due to FD's wanting to put way too much on them, then run the wheels off them.  The Ford F-550 addresses some of the weight issues that plagued the earlier F-350 size rigs, but there are limits.  Respect those limits and you will have a successful mini.  The County where I live has two mini's on order to replace two full-size pumpers.  In this case, both mini's will be at stations that are surrounded by nearby pumpers and one shares quarters with a 75' quint.  The current pumpers at those stations are running about 98% EMS runs.  The only way to see if this concept will work is to try it.

[dJames]

You will need to start planning a trip back to the coast, Lots of new apparatus here and more coming. Savannah has two Sutphen 100' mid mount aerials, another on order, a rescue squad, and a fireboat.

 

 

Is the new rescue in production yet? Had heard it was most likely going to be Sutphen / SVI and just curious if that is who is constructing it. Thanks!

 

Drew


 

[firescooby]

 

 

Is the new rescue in production yet? Had heard it was most likely going to be Sutphen / SVI and just curious if that is who is constructing it. Thanks!

 

Drew

 

It is in production, and it is a Sutphen/SVI. Plans are for it to be at FRI in Atlanta next month.

[AFD Prescott]

Scooby what are the dates? Location? And time for FRI? also what is the Savannah Rescue? Like Columbus or like Orlando?

[chief60]

It is more like Columbus. Exhibits are open the 28th & 29th of August at the world congress center in ATL.

[firescooby]

Scooby what are the dates? Location? And time for FRI? also what is the Savannah Rescue? Like Columbus or like Orlando?

Yeah, more similar to Columbus OH and Coweta GA. It's a single axle with overall length of around 37'.

[dJames]

It is in production, and it is a Sutphen/SVI. Plans are for it to be at FRI in Atlanta next month.

 


Thank you for the information. Looks like I'll be making that trip.

[GA_Dave]

I recently spent the weekend at Sunset Beach, NC, visiting family who were vacationing there.  I managed to shoot a few rigs while there and on the trip home.

 

Engine 4, Sunset Beach, NC

2013 E\-One Typhoon (Cyclone II grille)

1500/1000

#137883