Detroit Fire Department to finally receive new apparatus

[fcdan]

I saw a recent drone vid of a fire and siting in the center of the road was a black over red pumper....anyone know whos it was?

Highland Park Engine 2. 

[Juice]

Probably Highland Park

 

(Page 3)

http://yngfire.com/index.php?topic=7844.30

[Guest]

Well for anyone wanting to see DFD's new rigs here is a video of them.

 

They look like interesting rigs, I hope they hold up well for them.  Not sure where the hell $40,000.00 in change orders per truck are but it's DFD and some things in the D still have not changed.

 

Will be interesting to see if they all wear black striping as some other pics forwaded to me had only two rigs with black striping and the rest with white.  I like the new take on the graphics although

I would still love to see the old english D with FD scramble on the units somwhere.

 

http://www.dailydetroit.com/2015/07/02/w...e-engines/

 

I think the first units are here or will be next week, with the rest to follow in the coming 4-6 weeks.  With a few each week if all holds to what I was last told.

 

Kris

[datafire]

I saw this story originally on the Firehouse site. Maybe this explains some of the delays and costs. I do know that after orders have been signed even the smallest changes can cost way more the further into the build cycle you are.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFS03VpcTpU

[jquest6368]

The "white" stripes is actually the paper covering of the black stripes that has not been removed yet.

[Guest]

The "white" stripes is actually the paper covering of the black stripes that has not been removed yet.

 

That's what my inital thought was but the picture I was shown had several units side by side (Well in close proximity) and two were black the rest were white and I would say 99%

sure it was not the graphics backing on it.  Not to say I couldn't be wrong but after seeing hundreds if not thousands of units in graphics install, I'm fairly confident to say that's not what I saw. 

 

Usually the backing is wider than the stripe, while what I was shown had the striping package perfectly in proportion.  This is why I don't think it was the backing material.

 

I saw this story originally on the Firehouse site. Maybe this explains some of the delays and costs. I do know that after orders have been signed even the smallest changes can cost way more the further into the build cycle you are.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFS03VpcTpU

 

Your right after order changes can be costly.  After 12 years of selling trucks it's actually sickening to me what some mfg's charge even for a simple change like adding a unit number to a vehicle in vinyl.

 

But no vehicle should ever have $40,000.00 or near that in changes after order.  The really bad part is DFD refuses to share with anyone what the changes were.  Smeal won't share either and frankly I don't

expect them to, its not thier job.  But it is the job of DFD to spend responsiably and after the bankruptcy even more so now, and there should be accountability for every penny spent.  So that's why I think they

need to come clean with what was done and for how much.  If what I have been told is correct the changes came from the managment and not apparatus committee, who from my last info a few weeks ago did

not know what changes had been made to specs.  (This was before final inspection on the first two units)

 

Remeber these are change orders so after placement of order, any things not meeting spec should have been made before the order was placed.  If an order was signed before then that's just bad business

by dealer, mfg and customer.  Really gives me the feeling of pulling a fast one trying to keep bid pricing low and changing things later after the deal is signed.   The largest amount of change orders I ever had

was around $5,000.00 and we had to try hard to get there, as the customer just wanted to use up his whole budget amount.  The problem with coming up with so many change orders, we did our job and so did

his crew and the truck was speced with just about anything it would ever need to have on it.  The solution doubleing up on Whelen M series lights when they were new on the market.

 

All in all as a local who spends tons of time and money in the "D" and someone who has family that is protected by DFD I just want them to be riding in good, safe working trucks.  But I really don't like the feeling

of how these changes were made or how they have reacted after being caught trying to make changes without elaborating on them.  Just saying making them to our spec is WAY to BROAD and not good, hell

one can say the wrong shade of red is not to "our" spec.  What wasn't to spec, why wasn't that changed before ordering and if the spec was right and build was wrong why is the mfg not picking up the cost?  If it

were up to me the only rig roaming the streets of Detorit would be a Seagrave, but it's not up to me and it seemed that DFD was being smart with these and getting the best bang for thier buck possible.  So I'm a

little let down by seeing DFD playing games again.  (Guess sometimes things just don't change)

 

Now I have worked several DFD bid's before and my honest feeling is DFD didn't have a clue as to the spec they put out.  (They were one of the most frustrating to work with as they always claimed to write their own

specs even if you could should them line by line verbage from brand X Y or Z.)  Now they want the trucks differently and so now they are paying the price for multiple changes, which would help explain why a multiple

truck order is going to delivered over several weeks and late instead of all at once.  Trust me and anyone that's worked in the industry the Mfg's want them all out the door at once!

 

Kris

[KDWMAEMT]

I can tell you, they (the apparatus committee) WANTED to get and stay with Pierce. Someone with more rank did everything possible to make sure Pierce didn't win the bid. He succeeded

[KDWMAEMT]

I'm reading that the "Squad pumper" idea has indeed been nixed. If these trucks are still in process, they wont be going to the Squads. Of course that can always change but as of now, its not happening

[BFD190]

Love to hear more on this. It would be awesome if the preference of the men had some persuasion in the decision. Unless they planned on some sort of operational change of the squad companies I don't see why you would want to entertain such a drastic change to the apparatus. They operate as a true rescue co. That is a grt manpower tool for they're needs. Changing the apparatus to a rescue pumper inevitably almost changes they're job discription imo.

[Guest]

Love to hear more on this. It would be awesome if the preference of the men had some persuasion in the decision. Unless they planned on some sort of operational change of the squad companies I don't see why you would want to entertain such a drastic change to the apparatus. They operate as a true rescue co. That is a grt manpower tool for they're needs. Changing the apparatus to a rescue pumper inevitably almost changes they're job discription imo.

 

Change in leadership saw this as what it was simply a way to add engine companies while loosing a key fire ground resource.  I'm sure city hall and Department leadership would have showed these off as new rescue pumpers.

 

The voters would absolutely love seeing new pumpers and quite frankly would have almost zero knowledge of why they were marked Rescue.  Just like a quint, these would have been terribly confused units on day one.  In DFD

it means more than likely they would have been used as engines more often than rescues.  Gradually turning into hybrid engine companies and elimination of the true DFD Rescue.  IMHO

 

Not that I have a problem putting a pump on a rescue, that's fine but here it was a red hearing.  Masking a rescue as a engine company.

 

Will be interesting to see what happens for new Rescues and the eventual specs, that is if SVI get's the job again or Smeal or someone else.  Those Spartan SVI's have held up amazingly well for the lack of maintenance and abuse they take.  My contacts in DFD have varying opinions on the Pierce trucks, definitely better than what they had (ALF) but also some real issues.  My personal take is that Pierce was no slam dunk with the guys on the job.  Most of all the guys really want a rig that works day in and day out and when its down the mfg is there to help get it fixed.

 

Having experience with Pierce and Smeal local dealers, I can say I've heard of and witnessed much better service out of the Smeal dealer (Going above and beyond to fix a rig).  But as they say every side has a story and each customer's mileage may vary.

 

Kris

[amcare38]

Any word on how the new engines are performing ?

[KDWMAEMT]

Confirmed today from R&R Fire Truck Repair Inc whos the Smeal dealer for the Detroit area. Change of plan will have these as regular pumpers and NOT rescue pumpers for the Squads. No timetable on their build and delivery and no word on whats going to be ordered for the Squads.

[chief60]

I just saw a post that stated they will be getting 9 additional engines in place of the rescue pumpers, anyone that can confirm?

[Guest]

I just saw a post that stated they will be getting 9 additional engines in place of the rescue pumpers, anyone that can confirm?

 

These are just the chassis that were originally scheduled to be the rescues.  They had changes made to make them more like the pumpers, they took delivery this summer from Smeal after new leadership nixed them as rescues (Don't have a list of changes).

 

The biggest give away will be they have a 10" raised roof while I think the pumpers had a 5" raised roof.

 

For those following such things Engine 17's temporary replacement E30 Pierce burnt up last week (Dec 15th).  First while in quarters then after being towed to apparatus.  It's thought to be electrical in nature and the damage was pretty significant from what could be seen of the cab, and lots of smoke and fire scars around the air intakes and grille.  This goes to my earlier comments on "Better than ALF but real issues of their own", of course burning is a much bigger issue than I was eluding to.

 

Kris

[Juice]

I saw over on yngfire.com that Detroit was recently demoing an E\-One Metro 100' which clearly means; NOTHING! I do know ladders were supposed to be looked at as the next apparatus purchased.


Trav!

[tk1sq]

How www are the squads coming along?

[fcdan]

No squads on order to my knowledge. The rescue pumper order with Smeal was cancelled, getting nine Smeal pumpers instead.

[Guest]

A few of the new engines are now in service, these are easily distinguished from the first order as they have raised roofs. These were the chassis originally intended to become rescue pumpers, to replace the rescue squads.


I'm attempting to get more info but I was told new ladders and squads plus more ambulances are on order.


No other info yet, will post when my contacts confirm the info.


Kris

[Juice]

I'm pretty sure Smeal/LTC won the ladder bid, and I keep hearing HME won the Squad bid, but I've yet to actually see anything that confirms it.

 

Trav!

[KDWMAEMT]

I can attest to hearing straight from a DFD member that Smeal won the ladders and then reading from another member that HME indeed did win the Squad bid.