St. Louis question

[BFD190]

After recently seeing a sharp looking new pump I got into reading about the changes in the apparatus. I recall how different it seemed at the time when they went with the total quint concept. I remember one of the big concerns many depts. That were struggling with fiscal concerns were very wary of how some city governments could use the idea of a truck that was essentially both pieces combined could be used against them to potentially decimate manpower.


After reading about how the learning curve (change) was overcome and really ironed out well on the second generation quints, I got to thinking about how it's been a full generation of ff s that only know operating with the quints. So I'm curious about how well going back to pumpers and sticks have worked for them , was this a huge change operationally? .


I know fireman will always make it work with whatever you give them to work with , but it really was a truly genuine thing that they pulled off back in the day. I know they still have quints but if anyone could speak to the latest change I'm curious . Thanks

[BFD190]

? > closest thing I could find to a cricket.

[alex3610]

While I can't speak to St. Louis, my department has also gone away from the all quint model (Richmond, VA).  It was funny because everyone bitched about how much they hated the quint concept, and then when some of them are told they are now a truck company, the first thing they want to do at a fire is pull a line.  Or an engine crew that shows up with nothing but hooks in their hands.  Shrug.

 

The quints showed up here in 1998 so we have plenty of guys that knew nothing but that.  One of the biggest downfalls in my eyes was the idea that everyone could do everything which lead to zero operational discipline.  So some guys still struggle with that.  One of the big selling points for the quints here was to eliminate positions.  So naturally when we go back to engines/ladders we don't have as many people or companies.  Truck 24 is currently in a house by itself.  Since they ride in an old quint right now they still can function as an engine within their first due.  Not sure how that is going to play out as we start to replace the remaining quints with real ladders for the truck companies.

[BFD190]

Thanks alex. Richmond was mentioned as the other dept. That used the quints concept. Pretty much how I thought it would go. Bit of an identity crisis to begin with so i can only imagine the bitch fest when the switchback came. You could put a million dollars in the compartments of the new rigs and guys will still be pissed about change. I weirdly love it. Let's me know all things are the same no matter where you go.

[GA_Dave]

I cannot speak to St. Louis either, as I have not been there since the first quints were new.  There are places where quints are ideal and places where they are not.  In my old FD, we ran a 100' platform quint as our truck company since 1995.  We cover an area that is small but busy, responding to over 7000 incidents in 2016 from two stations.  Truck 1 occasionally is the only rig available for a structure fire and being a quint is a necessity in those cases.  Having it's own pump and supply hose make it self-sufficient on any incident.  Current plans call for the addition of a third station and another company, a 75' quint, which will be a great asset in both pumping and aerial abilities.

 

I live in a county that is covered by a 14 station career FD with two truck companies.  One is a 100' TDA and the other is a 75' quint.  There are three cities in the county with their own FD's, including 4 aerial apparatus, all quints, including a 105' platform, a 105' stick and two 75' sticks.  The County FD, wishing to add aerial capabilities to the fleet, have assigned 75' quints to three engine companies.  This has been going on since 1994 and has worked out well for them.

 

I don't believe that either FD will ever go TQC, but quints have found their place here and they will stay.

[BFD190]

I can definitely understand its use fullness in some areas. As for a large municipal dept. Going with the concept in the 80s , that was very uniue. It is ironic in that many depts. Used quints as a tool to overcome manpower issues, and others were terrified at how such a concept could be used to reduce manpower. I think it's great to be able to look back nd see how well it worked for some

[firescooby]

I cannot speak to St. Louis either, as I have not been there since the first quints were new.  There are places where quints are ideal and places where they are not.  In my old FD, we ran a 100' platform quint as our truck company since 1995.  We cover an area that is small but busy, responding to over 7000 incidents in 2016 from two stations.  Truck 1 occasionally is the only rig available for a structure fire and being a quint is a necessity in those cases.  Having it's own pump and supply hose make it self-sufficient on any incident.  Current plans call for the addition of a third station and another company, a 75' quint, which will be a great asset in both pumping and aerial abilities.

 

I live in a county that is covered by a 14 station career FD with two truck companies.  One is a 100' TDA and the other is a 75' quint.  There are three cities in the county with their own FD's, including 4 aerial apparatus, all quints, including a 105' platform, a 105' stick and two 75' sticks.  The County FD, wishing to add aerial capabilities to the fleet, have assigned 75' quints to three engine companies.  This has been going on since 1994 and has worked out well for them.

 

I don't believe that either FD will ever go TQC, but quints have found their place here and they will stay.

I agree Dave. I think one issue is EMS response. All of our 12 ladder companies run Quints. The engines are first out on med calls of course, so if we had a true truck, we'd be twiddling our thumbs for a while.

 

No pump trucks are rare in the South unless it's Atlanta or a handful of others.

[alex3610]

Thanks alex. Richmond was mentioned as the other dept. That used the quints concept. Pretty much how I thought it would go. Bit of an identity crisis to begin with so i can only imagine the bitch fest when the switchback came. You could put a million dollars in the compartments of the new rigs and guys will still be pissed about change. I weirdly love it. Let's me know all things are the same no matter where you go.

 

Identity crisis is the exact term I've used many times describing my own department.  The irony is tough to ignore.  The old timers who constantly speak of the old days of ladders and trucks seem to have the hardest time transitioning back.  It's a big step in the right direction for us though.  We are hoping to see the return of tractor drawn aerials as we start to replace aerials but that is going to be easier said than done.

 

Quints themselves aren't a bad thing.  They are 100% appropriate for many places.  An entire fleet of them for an urban environment is no bueno though.

[Truckman]

Truck 24 is operating with a 2012 Arrow XT Quint which was bought for that company, but is classified as a Truck Co.  

.

[TacSupport1]

After reading about how the learning curve (change) was overcome and really ironed out well on the second generation quints, I got to thinking about how it's been a full generation of ff s that only know operating with the quints. So I'm curious about how well going back to pumpers and sticks have worked for them , was this a huge change operationally? .

 

Here's an article I dug up:

 

​http://www.fireapparatusmagazine.com/art...tting.html

[BFD190]

Thank you. Grt article.