St. Louis Metro

[MFD76]

Mid County

Engine 45-1 (4511)

[MFD76]

Mid County Engine 45-1 (4511)

[MFD76]

West Overland

Rescue-Engine 52-1 (5214)

[MFD76]

West Overland

Rescue-Engine 52-1 (5214)

[MFD76]

West Overland

Engine 52-1 (5210)

[MFD76]

Maryland Heights

Rescue-Engine 44-1 (4414)

[MFD76]

West Overland

Ambulance 52-1 (5217)

[MFD76]

So when I posted the County photos last night. I though how could MABAS be improved. Here in Johnson County we had similar change in 2001-2002. We went from a three digit system with no clear text to a clear text system. I my Engine before the change was 620 my Truck 650 now Engine 61 and Truck 61. Our County changed for a number of reasons one was a metro wide push to standardize fire department text. This was for disaster, WMD, and Multiple Alarm fire responses. Our Truck made the big West Bottoms fire in 1999 and I remember KCFD calling what's a 650 oh yeah where a Truck Company. Our county does not designate if you carry rescue tools or not, the cad logs that info at the alarm office. So with MABAS clear text would make it easier if you respond out of the MABAS region. Now I know MABAS system is hugh in IL and Eastern Missouri you could use clear text in place of the fourth digit. So 5214 would be Rescue-Engine 52-1 or Rescue-Engine 521, 5110 would be Engine 51-1 or Engine 511, 5122 would be Quint 51-2 or Quint 512. To an outsider trying to buff I had to use the secret decoder ring to decipher the fourth digit <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> Just my thoughts no harm no foul.



Stay Safe,

Rick

[Guest]

Looks like you had a nice trip to the Metro, Rick. Great pictures in all the threads you posted in!



The Metro wide numbering system is very easy to follow, at least to the "natives". I cant remember when the move to 4-digit was made. I want to say late 80's/early 90's, before my time or my understanding. St. Louis Metro most likely went to 4-digit to accommodate the large amount of departments in the area. St. Louis County alone has 43 departments/districts.

First 2 digits: Department ID

3rd digit: Station #

4th digit: Apparatus type



Example:

1922

19- Valley Park Fire District

2-Station 2

2-Truck Co



0-First out engine

1-Second out engine

2-Truck

3-Tanker

4-Rescue/Engine

5-Quint

6-Rescue

7-Ambulance

8-Utility/Brush/Misc

9-Boat



Only two departments in the area do not follow this: obviously St. Louis Fire Department, and Brentwood FD. Brentwood remains with 3-digit, 400's.

[Ladder 68]

The actual company Hook & Ladder Co. 06 in the 2nd Battalion, was it redesignated as H&L Co. 02 or stay as H&L Co. 06?



I ask because unless they moved quarters they are still in the 2nd correct? And with the redesignation I thought they became H&L Co. 02.



Thanks in advance.

[Guest]

[quote name='Ladder 68' date='17 December 2009 - 07:02 PM' timestamp='1261096952' post='352924']

The actual company Hook & Ladder Co. 06 in the 2nd Battalion, was it redesignated as H&L Co. 02 or stay as H&L Co. 06?



I ask because unless they moved quarters they are still in the 2nd correct? And with the redesignation I thought they became H&L Co. 02.



Thanks in advance.

[/quote]

What was H&L 6 assigned downtown in district 2, has become H&L 2. The new H&L 6 is located at Florissant and Calvary on the City's far northside.

[Guest]

Any truth that H&L 2 (old H&L 6) E\-One is going into reserve and the old 125' H&L 15 Smeal is going to H&L 2.

[Guest]

The E\-One was renumbered h&l2 and still in service @ the 2s as of yesterday afternoon. And H&L15s piece has been renumbered 115 and is the designated spare. Which means it will probably stay downtown for the amount of time the E\-One is broken.

[Guest]

Affton FPD

Medic 1117

2007 International/Braun

   

[MFD76]

[quote name='STLFire2494' date='18 December 2009 - 10:16 AM' timestamp='1261151794' post='353016']

The E\-One was renumbered h&l2 and still in service @ the 2s as of yesterday afternoon. And H&L15s piece has been renumbered 115 and is the designated spare. Which means it will probably stay downtown for the amount of time the E\-One is broken.

[/quote]

Any reason why they would place the newer rig in spare service and leave the E\-One in front line? Thanks in advance. Stay Safe Happy Holidays, Rick

[Guest]

To the out-of-towners and the younger St. Louis area buffs who don't know the origin, St. Louis County began implementing the 4 digit numbering system in late 1989. Prior to that, some of the 42 county departments and districts shared the same numbers, though they were miles apart. A few examples: Affton and Ferguson both used the '30' series; Affton 1114 used to be 31 and Ferguson 3014 used to be 31; Mehlville 1710 used to be 21 and Berkeley 3615 was also 21 (though it was before they had the Smeal quint). Some departments/districts used 2 digits for their units and some used 3, depending on what part of the county they were in.



The 4 digit numbering system was implemented to organize things and differentiate what kind of unit was which and do away with different departments using the same numbers, as pointed out in the examples above. Now it was clear which units were pumpers, rescue pumpers, quints, rescue quints, aerials, ambulances, rescue trucks, tankers (tenders), brush trucks (wildland vehicles), boats, utility vehicles, and air cascade trucks/trailers, and from which station(s) the units were responding from.



Prior to that, some of the numbers didn't make sense. For example, Shrewsbury's pumper was 507 and the ambulance was 509. Webster Groves' pumpers were 501 and 503, and their ladder was 502. In some parts of St. Louis County, if the unit number ended with a '9' it was designated as an aerial device. So Webster 502 technically should have been 509. Clayton's aerial platform was 319, which made sense. But Mehlville's 1973 Seagrave ladder truck was Ladder 1. Frontenac's only pumper was 385 (instead of 381); Richmond Heights' only (front line) pumper was 424 (instead of 421); some ambulance numbers ended in '16','17', or '18', or '05', '06' or '07'. Ballwin's (Metro West) ambulances numbers were 326, 337 and 338, for example. So there were a mish-mash of numbers and no rhyme-or-reason as to why which numbers were used in which way, except that the different dispatch agencies numbered them that way.



The only St. Louis County department that didn't go to 4 digits was Brentwood. Their pumpers are 411 (front line) and 412 (reserve), and the ambulances are 407 (front line) and 497(reserve). Their designated St. Louis County agency number is 25. North Central Fire Alarm used to dispatch 411 as 2510 when dispatching them on a 2nd or 3rd Alarm (for example, to Mid County's district), but they no longer do that.

[Guest]

great info jim. i didnt know that stuff and i was raised in the firehouse. my dad worked at creve coeur and central county used to dispatch from house one, so i had a different perspective growing up.

[Guest]

Personally, I like the 4 digit numbering system and I think it makes sense. I also like it for the organizational sense that it brought about. When it was first introduced 20 years ago I thought it was horrible, having units with 4 digits instead of the "traditional" 2 or 3! But after awhile I got used to it, as did everyone else, and today, looking back at how it used to be, it definately makes more sense.



The thing is, 20 years later, most, if not all, pumpers and quints in St. Louis County carry vehicle extrication equipment, so it seems that having a '4' at the end of the unit number designating it a rescue pumper (or a '5' for a rescue quint) instead of a '0' or a '1' (or a '2' for an aerial or quint) seems a thing of the past. I guess it was "in vogue" back then, being designated as a rescue pumper or quint, because having a set of Jaws on your truck was not as common as it is today.



Below are several fire and EMS units in St. Louis County with their new and their old numbers. This list is by no means complete!



1114 - 31

1124 - 32

1134 - 33

1117 - 305

1197 - 306

1139 - Rescue 3

1100 - 301

1210 - 61

1214 - 62

1216 - Rescue 6

1200 - 601

1710 - 21

1722 - 22

1730 - 23

1760 - 26

1752 - Ladder 1

1717 - 205

1757 - 206

1727 - 207

1702 - 202

2315 - 281

2324 - 282

2317 - 286

2327 - 287

2302 - 2904

1414 - 451

2714 - 273

2114 - 424

2117 - 417

2611 - 261

2625 - 269

2624 - 263

2617 - 257

2627 - 256

1814 - 507

1817 - 509

3214 - 321

3212 - 319

3217 - 318

2024 - 503

2017 - 504

2005 - 500

2000 - CFD

3114 - 431

3414 - 441

5110 - 133

5125 - 132

5214 - 251

5217 - 248

4510 - 221

4511 - 222

2814 - 361

2817 - 356

2914 - 385

2917 - 377

3914 - 391

3917 - 386

3514 - 351

3522/3525 - 352

3312 - 339

3333 - 343

3324 - 332

3317 - 326

3337 - 338

4814 - 234

4824 - 233

4827 - 226

4015 - 12

4034 - 14

4024 - 15

4910 - 121

4920 - 122

4210 - 111

4610 - 81

4310 - 42

4414 - 243

4425 - 239

4417 - 236

3810 - 204

3822 - 209

3830 - 211

3827 - 206

3837 - 207

4714 - 91

4724 - 92

4717 - 96

3710 - 71

3720 - 72

3735 - 79

4115 - 51

4124 - 52

1610 - 41

1614 - 42

1617 - 405

1697 - 406

1914 - 51

1917 - 505

1314 - 81

1325 - 82

1334 - 83

1327 - 805

2414 - 474

2420 - 472

2417 - 486

2427 - 487



When Town and Country had their own fire department, their pumper's number was 371. Then Manchester (renamed West County EMS and Fire Dist.) took them over in 1983 and T&CFD's station became Manchester Station 3.

[Guest]

thankes for posting been so long forgot some of the old numbers.

[MFD76]

[quote name='JM82' date='26 December 2009 - 09:18 PM' timestamp='1261882729' post='354324']

Personally, I like the 4 digit numbering system and I think it makes sense. I also like it for the organizational sense that it brought about. When it was first introduced 20 years ago I thought it was horrible, having units with 4 digits instead of the "traditional" 2 or 3! But after awhile I got used to it, as did everyone else, and today, looking back at how it used to be, it definately makes more sense.



The thing is, 20 years later, most, if not all, pumpers and quints in St. Louis County carry vehicle extrication equipment, so it seems that having a '4' at the end of the unit number designating it a rescue pumper (or a '5' for a rescue quint) instead of a '0' or a '1' (or a '2' for an aerial or quint) seems a thing of the past. I guess it was "in vogue" back then, being designated as a rescue pumper or quint, because having a set of Jaws on your truck was not as common as it is today.



Below are several fire and EMS units in St. Louis County with their new and their old numbers. This list is by no means complete!



1114 - 31

1124 - 32

1134 - 33

1117 - 305

1197 - 306

1139 - Rescue 3

1100 - 301

1210 - 61

1214 - 62

1216 - Rescue 6

1200 - 601

1710 - 21

1722 - 22

1730 - 23

1760 - 26

1752 - Ladder 1

1717 - 205

1757 - 206

1727 - 207

1702 - 202

2315 - 281

2324 - 282

2317 - 286

2327 - 287

2302 - 2904

1414 - 451

2714 - 273

2114 - 424

2117 - 417

2611 - 261

2625 - 269

2624 - 263

2617 - 257

2627 - 256

1814 - 507

1817 - 509

3214 - 321

3212 - 319

3217 - 318

2024 - 503

2017 - 504

2005 - 500

2000 - CFD

3114 - 431

3414 - 441

5110 - 133

5125 - 132

5214 - 251

5217 - 248

4510 - 221

4511 - 222

2814 - 361

2817 - 356

2914 - 385

2917 - 377

3914 - 391

3917 - 386

3514 - 351

3522/3525 - 352

3312 - 339

3333 - 343

3324 - 332

3317 - 326

3337 - 338

4814 - 234

4824 - 233

4827 - 226

4015 - 12

4034 - 14

4024 - 15

4910 - 121

4920 - 122

4210 - 111

4610 - 81

4310 - 42

4414 - 243

4425 - 239

4417 - 236

3810 - 204

3822 - 209

3830 - 211

3827 - 206

3837 - 207

4714 - 91

4724 - 92

4717 - 96

3710 - 71

3720 - 72

3735 - 79

4115 - 51

4124 - 52

1610 - 41

1614 - 42

1617 - 405

1697 - 406

1914 - 51

1917 - 505

1314 - 81

1325 - 82

1334 - 83

1327 - 805

2414 - 474

2420 - 472

2417 - 486

2427 - 487



When Town and Country had their own fire department, their pumper's number was 371. Then Manchester (renamed West County EMS and Fire Dist.) took them over in 1983 and T&CFD's station became Manchester Station 3.

[/quote]



Sweet thanks for the info. I always wondered about the history of the four numbers. Sounds like it works well. What is St. Louis MABAS numbers? Stay SAfe Brother, Rick