[quote name='b9208' timestamp='1313214683' post='452749']
I may have missed it along the way in this thread, but is the return to the commercial cabs in Minneapolis simply a monetary issue? The new Rosenbauers look smaller overall than the Pierce E5 and others...Are they equipped differently or used in a different role, or just a change in body style for engine companies?
[/quote]
Not that I pose as an expert authority, but, I do have some additional background on the commercial chassis tradition which I posted earlier in this thread but has merit mentioning again:
There is a tradition component to it all as well. For many years, the Upper Midwest Fire Apparatus Market was dominated by a handful of regional builders, most notably General Safety, Inc. of North Branch, MN (now part of Rosenbauer). In a story not unlike the Pierre Thibault/Pierville family schism, CustomFire, Inc. was born in the late 1970's and both companies prospered and continue to thrive.
Owing to our challenging winters, crew enclosures started appearing in the 1960's, with the Saint Paul FD utilizing the infamous "telephone booth" enclosure on their Ford C/General Safety rigs. Minneapolis had been specifying fully enclosed sedan cabs since the late 1940's on their Pirsch, WLF, and Mack rigs, so when they made their first move away to commercial chassis in the early 1970's, it was natural they would specify 4 door cabs on the Ford L's.
It has been suggested that Saint Paul started specifying Ford chassis in the 1960's as an homage to the Ford Plant located in the city. But, by the 1970's Ford L chassis became a mandate from both Saint Paul and Minneapolis city beancounters. Whatever chassis manufacturer won the bid for city municipal heavy equipment (e.g. Snowplows, Refuse Haulers, etc.) dictated on which chassis the next batch of fire apparatus would be built. This is why, until the last decade or so, Saint Paul has had a mix of Ford L, Volvo, and Sterling rigs, and Minneapolis with Ford L, International S, and Freightliner apparatus.
Like in so many metropolitan areas, suburban departments adapted whatever was working for the big cities, and General & CustomFire built very durable bodies on these commercial chassis...as did Saint Paul, Minneapolis, General & CustomFire went, so did much of the region.
The Peterbilt chassis tradition has another origin. In the 1970's, the south metro suburb of Burnsville had the only combined Police/Fire/EMS Public Safety Department in the state, which was a source of pride. In fact, Burnsville's annual community celebration is the Burnsville Fire Muster. Out of this pride (and the fact that over-the-road trucking was a cultural fixation in the 1970's, a la "Smokey & The Bandit", etc.), Burnsville specified two pumpers to be built by General Safety on Peterbilt conventional chassis, with their stylish Super Chief body and complete with the Telephone Booth (by this time marketed by General as "The St. Paul Cab"). These were, by far, the flashiest pieces of firefighting equipment in the state and got a lot of notice, even a 1/25 model kit of these rigs was produced. Burnsville later went on to purchase two more Peterbilts, this time built by CustomFire. Neighboring Eagan ordered 4 Peterbilt/CustomFire pumpers in the 1980's (as Josh photographed above), and then the Peterbilts just kept popping up everywhere...Prior Lake, Lakeville, Golden Valley, St. Louis Park, Cottage Grove, just to name a few.
Though industry-spec chassis (Spartan, HME, etc.) are becoming the norm, Rosenbauer & CustomFire still have a good share of the market here. All of Saint Paul's Spartans were built by CustomFire. Pierce is making some serious inroads in this part of the country, but except for a few oddball ALF's and E-Ones here & there, that's our scene.
I may have missed it along the way in this thread, but is the return to the commercial cabs in Minneapolis simply a monetary issue? The new Rosenbauers look smaller overall than the Pierce E5 and others...Are they equipped differently or used in a different role, or just a change in body style for engine companies?
[/quote]
Not that I pose as an expert authority, but, I do have some additional background on the commercial chassis tradition which I posted earlier in this thread but has merit mentioning again:
There is a tradition component to it all as well. For many years, the Upper Midwest Fire Apparatus Market was dominated by a handful of regional builders, most notably General Safety, Inc. of North Branch, MN (now part of Rosenbauer). In a story not unlike the Pierre Thibault/Pierville family schism, CustomFire, Inc. was born in the late 1970's and both companies prospered and continue to thrive.
Owing to our challenging winters, crew enclosures started appearing in the 1960's, with the Saint Paul FD utilizing the infamous "telephone booth" enclosure on their Ford C/General Safety rigs. Minneapolis had been specifying fully enclosed sedan cabs since the late 1940's on their Pirsch, WLF, and Mack rigs, so when they made their first move away to commercial chassis in the early 1970's, it was natural they would specify 4 door cabs on the Ford L's.
It has been suggested that Saint Paul started specifying Ford chassis in the 1960's as an homage to the Ford Plant located in the city. But, by the 1970's Ford L chassis became a mandate from both Saint Paul and Minneapolis city beancounters. Whatever chassis manufacturer won the bid for city municipal heavy equipment (e.g. Snowplows, Refuse Haulers, etc.) dictated on which chassis the next batch of fire apparatus would be built. This is why, until the last decade or so, Saint Paul has had a mix of Ford L, Volvo, and Sterling rigs, and Minneapolis with Ford L, International S, and Freightliner apparatus.
Like in so many metropolitan areas, suburban departments adapted whatever was working for the big cities, and General & CustomFire built very durable bodies on these commercial chassis...as did Saint Paul, Minneapolis, General & CustomFire went, so did much of the region.
The Peterbilt chassis tradition has another origin. In the 1970's, the south metro suburb of Burnsville had the only combined Police/Fire/EMS Public Safety Department in the state, which was a source of pride. In fact, Burnsville's annual community celebration is the Burnsville Fire Muster. Out of this pride (and the fact that over-the-road trucking was a cultural fixation in the 1970's, a la "Smokey & The Bandit", etc.), Burnsville specified two pumpers to be built by General Safety on Peterbilt conventional chassis, with their stylish Super Chief body and complete with the Telephone Booth (by this time marketed by General as "The St. Paul Cab"). These were, by far, the flashiest pieces of firefighting equipment in the state and got a lot of notice, even a 1/25 model kit of these rigs was produced. Burnsville later went on to purchase two more Peterbilts, this time built by CustomFire. Neighboring Eagan ordered 4 Peterbilt/CustomFire pumpers in the 1980's (as Josh photographed above), and then the Peterbilts just kept popping up everywhere...Prior Lake, Lakeville, Golden Valley, St. Louis Park, Cottage Grove, just to name a few.
Though industry-spec chassis (Spartan, HME, etc.) are becoming the norm, Rosenbauer & CustomFire still have a good share of the market here. All of Saint Paul's Spartans were built by CustomFire. Pierce is making some serious inroads in this part of the country, but except for a few oddball ALF's and E-Ones here & there, that's our scene.
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