Prince William County VA

[Guest]

[quote name='drfeelgood' timestamp='1353698281' post='503784']

Nate a TDA isn't just for tight urban streets it's just an advantage of one. Also Ridgefield, Belmont, Stonebridge areas are a bit tight and Tower/Truck Companies have to get creative and there are many more developments with the "Town Center" layout are coming.

TDA's can carry more equipment, ground ladders, and a Quiller version the pump and tank do not take away from compartment space. They are also easier and cheaper to keep for 20 years (Re-tractor) than a re-chassis of a straight truck. Of course the lenght and need for 2 opreators make them a bit challenging.

I'm sure roads in Bedford, Leesburg, and So. Maryland can make Purcell Rd. look like I95. Plus as a kid I saw Truck 12 navigate roads like Davis Ford, Smoketown, Hoadly, and Telegraph with ease.

All trucks/towers have advantages and disadvantages but true data and testing is the only way to figure that out. Kids can dream but proof is always in the pudding.

[/quote]



Jr - I appreciate your response, which certainly featured some valid points… BUT is there really THAT much of an operational edge/criteria to warrant purchasing a Tiller for a response district that is predominantly a suburban bedroom community? That's what I was trying to say, but I guess Thursday's Tryptophan-laden turkey binge obscured my ability to articulate my core point <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



Sr definitely has some very valid points. As an example, years ago (LONG before Fairfax County BLEW UP population-wise) Tiller Ladders (and Towers) were everywhere.



Another interesting factoid is that the first FAIRFAX COUNTY purchased Truck was a mid-mount (non-Tiler) Ladder! What's also interesting (and further validates Sr's statement) is that even when Prince William was a FAR more rural jurisdiction you had Tiller Ladders at 2/12 and 11, but not a single one now - which highlights the functional improvements made in rear--mount straight sticks.



Although I greatly commend the PWC Volunteer Departments who have been conductingin-house Training/Certification Courses, I have a feeling the County may want ti be in complete control of instructing such a specialized course.



Excellent discussion! Be safe and happy holidays!

[Guest]

[quote name='drfeelgood' timestamp='1353698281' post='503784']

Nate a TDA isn't just for tight urban streets it's just an advantage of one. Also Ridgefield, Belmont, Stonebridge areas are a bit tight and Tower/Truck Companies have to get creative and there are many more developments with the "Town Center" layout are coming.

TDA's can carry more equipment, ground ladders, and a Quiller version the pump and tank do not take away from compartment space. They are also easier and cheaper to keep for 20 years (Re-tractor) than a re-chassis of a straight truck. Of course the lenght and need for 2 opreators make them a bit challenging.

I'm sure roads in Bedford, Leesburg, and So. Maryland can make Purcell Rd. look like I95. Plus as a kid I saw Truck 12 navigate roads like Davis Ford, Smoketown, Hoadly, and Telegraph with ease.

All trucks/towers have advantages and disadvantages but true data and testing is the only way to figure that out. Kids can dream but proof is always in the pudding.

[/quote]



Jr - I appreciate your response, which certainly featured some valid points… BUT is there really THAT much of an operational edge/criteria to warrant purchasing a Tiller for a response district that is predominantly a suburban bedroom community? That's what I was trying to say, but I guess Thursday's Tryptophan-laden turkey binge obscured my ability to articulate my core point <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



Sr definitely has some very valid points. As an example, years ago (LONG before Fairfax County BLEW UP population-wise) Tiller Ladders (and Towers) were everywhere.



Another interesting factoid is that the first FAIRFAX COUNTY purchased Truck was a mid-mount (non-Tiler) Ladder! What's also interesting (and further validates Sr's statement) is that even when Prince William was a FAR more rural jurisdiction you had Tiller Ladders at 2/12 and 11, but not a single one now - which highlights the functional improvements made in rear--mount straight sticks.



Although I greatly commend the PWC Volunteer Departments who have been conductingin-house Training/Certification Courses, I have a feeling the County may want ti be in complete control of instructing such a specialized course.



Excellent discussion! Happy Holidays!

[Guest]

Jr - I appreciate your response, which certainly featured some valid points… BUT is there really THAT much of an operational edge/criteria to warrant purchasing a Tiller for a response district that is predominantly a suburban bedroom community? That's what I was trying to say, but I guess Thursday's Tryptophan-laden turkey binge obscured my ability to articulate my core point <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



Sr definitely has some very valid points. As an example, years ago (LONG before Fairfax County BLEW UP population-wise) Tiller Ladders (and Towers) were everywhere.



Another interesting factoid is that the first FAIRFAX COUNTY purchased Truck was a mid-mount (non-Tiler) Ladder! What's also interesting (and further validates Sr's statement) is that even when Prince William was a FAR more rural jurisdiction you had Tiller Ladders at 2/12 and 11, but not a single one now - which highlights the functional improvements made in rear--mount straight sticks.



Although I greatly commend the PWC Volunteer Departments who have been conductingin-house Training/Certification Courses, I have a feeling the County may want to be in complete control of instructing such a specialized course.



Excellent discussion!

[SrFireOfficial]

Thanks Nate...



Anyway, the point I have made emphatically in both of my previous posts about a tiller ladder truck in a volunteer system is that it needs two drivers versus one driver for the rear mount. As I stated when I initially put the P38 to the worm can here, there were incidents when the rear mount truck at the volunteer house I lived in got out the door before the tiller truck did at the neighboring hook and ladder company all because they were waiting for a tiller or tractor driver on home response.



And since it has been a while since tillers were in-service in PWC, the question of who will staff it during the day time hours when the career crews are working rears its head. Please correct me if I am wrong but it's probably been a over dozen and maybe closer to 20 years since there were front-line tillers in PWC. I have a gut feeling there maybe some resistance to having a TDA back in the system based on their staffing and training requirements (how many tractor/tiller qualified Tech's are there to staff the truck based on annual/sick leave etc).



Ah yes, quillers; quick trivia question: Anybody know off the top of their head where the East Coast quiller is (at least the only one I know of [hint, Welles Crowther])?



Like any quint type apparatus, a quiller is full of compromises from an equipment storage point (where does the supply bed go) to how it can be deployed on the fire ground (it's gonna look funny hooked to the hydrant when the stick is needed at the front of the fire building). While the point is made that a tiller can be re-tractored (Phoenix FD and others) have successfully done this, re-tractoring a quiller (think of a pumper with no hose body and a fifth wheel instead) is going to cost almost as much as a pumper. And again, if there aren't two drivers, it's going to scratch no matter how much equipment it carries.



Don't get me wrong, I love tiller ladder trucks and truly consider it a religious experience to watch a chrome-laden tractor drawn Seagrave aerial ladder truck with the Q pegged weave through traffic as it responds on a box alarm but due consideration must be given to getting the truck to the scene first.



Best always....



SFO

[drfeelgood]

[quote name='Good2Go' timestamp='1353987678' post='504059']

Jr - I appreciate your response, which certainly featured some valid points… BUT is there really THAT much of an operational edge/criteria to warrant purchasing a Tiller for a response district that is predominantly a suburban bedroom community? That's what I was trying to say, but I guess Thursday's Tryptophan-laden turkey binge obscured my ability to articulate my core point <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



Sr definitely has some very valid points. As an example, years ago (LONG before Fairfax County BLEW UP population-wise) Tiller Ladders (and Towers) were everywhere.



Another interesting factoid is that the first FAIRFAX COUNTY purchased Truck was a mid-mount (non-Tiler) Ladder! What's also interesting (and further validates Sr's statement) is that even when Prince William was a FAR more rural jurisdiction you had Tiller Ladders at 2/12 and 11, but not a single one now - which highlights the functional improvements made in rear--mount straight sticks.



Although I greatly commend the PWC Volunteer Departments who have been conductingin-house Training/Certification Courses, I have a feeling the County may want to be in complete control of instructing such a specialized course.



Excellent discussion!

[/quote]



Nate,



I understand your point about urban vs. suburban response areas but if you look at the DMV where there is just as many TDA's in suburbia than downtown. The reasons for this are not completely known or what tactical advantage actully is but I'm just saying with collecting data this could be made clear. Then again the answers could be "because its cool" or "we always had one" which doesn't really give good reasons to purchase one. There are plenty of true pros and cons out there which need true research.

[Guest]

[quote name='drfeelgood' timestamp='1354027777' post='504079']

Nate,



I understand your point about urban vs. suburban response areas but if you look at the DMV where there is just as many TDA's in suburbia than downtown. The reasons for this are not completely known or what tactical advantage actully is but I'm just saying with collecting data this could be made clear. Then again the answers could be "because its cool" or "we always had one" which doesn't really give good reasons to purchase one. There are plenty of true pros and cons out there which need true research.

[/quote]



Excellent points to ponder Jr and SrFO

[SrFireOfficial]

So, where are we on a new Truck 13?

[drfeelgood]

So, where are we on a new Truck 13?

The current one isn't due for replacement until 2015 so nothing offical. I understand there is a ton of unoffical talk out there. Tel-a-phone, tel-a-friend, tel-a-fireman!!!

[ShoreFire]

I'm hearing a FDNY like Ferrara, sporting the new dept color scheme............. What say the Chief?

[SrFireOfficial]

Anything new in Prince William County?  Where is DCVFD on a new truck/tower purchase?  News gets out to Arizona a little slow sometimes!

[Guest]

Nice pic of the truck for the past and truck work fire today

[daviddnb]

I think dumfries triangle have 2 E\-One engine on order

[paganores10cue]

Nice pic of the truck for the past and truck work fire today

What???

[fighttheenemy666]

<p style="margin-left:0px;">Thought this thread could use some revitalization!  I am by no means a photographer, most of these were taken with my iphone.  Most of these will not have any information (you have been warned), feel free to add anything!  Random assortment of Prince William County....

<p style="margin-left:0px;"> 

<p style="margin-left:0px;">First up is Tower 501, due to be replaced shortly.

<p style="margin-left:0px;"> 

<p style="margin-left:0px;">    

[fighttheenemy666]

Manassas Rescue has four similar Ford ambulances.  This is their newest, M501C.

 

   

[lawrencewhite111]

Hey it looks like you were at AES in Manassas................Shoot everything you can and post away !

[fighttheenemy666]

Manassas uses 81's for their box numbers (example: box 8106), their staffed battalion chief is BC581.  U581 is this Ford, run by the rescue squad. 

   

[fighttheenemy666]

Dumfries-Triangle is in process of acquiring a new rescue squad.  It's unknown what will happen to the old rescue 503.  This truck was kept at station 23 for a long time, it is now back at station 3 rescue.

 

   

[fighttheenemy666]

A503 is this older International.  It's kept at station 23 and is used as the station reserve.  Picture taken at the Reagan Airport disaster drill.

 

   

[fighttheenemy666]

Boat 503 is also kept at station 23.