Montgomery County MD

[Guest]

Bethesda's xTrk 26, a 1969 Pirsch 100', while it was slowly transitioning to Burtonsville.

Warren Jenkins photo

[Guest]

Burtonsville's Brush in 1992, a 1989 Ford F/Grumman 250/250.

Warren Jenkins photo

[Guest]

In the fall of 1992, this 1970 Hahn 1250/500 was sitting in Burtonsville's backlot at their old station. As far as Iknow, this one, unlike its mate, would molder away...

Warren Jenkins photo

[nms1111]

[quote name='Richard_L_Dean_07405' post='158980' date='Oct 28 2007, 12:13 ']First up is a 1927? American Lafrance - built for Secaucus NY, rejected (as is my understanding), and bought by the Bethesda Fire Dept. This engine was bought by Glen Echo and delivered on Nov. 30, 1930. This was the first piece for the department.





I believe that should be Secaucus NJ, in the heart of the Meadowlands 4 miles west of midtown Manhattan, home to 14,000 people, hundreds of businesses and industries, hotels, and two broadcast tv stations. Secaucus is protected by 5 all volunteer fire companies with one of their ex chiefs presently serving as president of the NJ State Firemen's Association. It is the only town so named listed at placesnamed.com.[/quote]





Thank you for the correction.

[Tillerman1664]

Well I'm sad to say, it will be awhile untill we get new Engines.



"October 29, 2007



TO: All MCFRS Personnel



FROM: Fire Chief Tom Carr



SUBJECT: Elite Fire Apparatus



This week Montgomery County formally accepted the Elite prototype pumper. The delivered unit was found to be a well-constructed, high quality vehicle that was manufactured to MCFRS specifications. However, due to unresolved business issues within Elite Fire Apparatus, Inc., I have requested the termination of the MCFRS pumper contract. Responding to my request, the County has terminated the contract for the manufacture of the remaining 36 fire department pumpers. The decision to terminate the contract was made only after careful consideration of all potential options. Although difficult, this decision was necessary to ensure all of you will have pumpers in a timely manner that meets the performance goals I have established for the organization. These goals include a cab/chassis with latest generation safety features, state of the art full-featured pump with compressed air foam system (CAFS) and a hose body configuration that allows all companies to operate from a single platform including supply and attack line configurations.



To this end, the County will continue the contract for the very successful manufacture and delivery of the remaining 36 Spartan Gladiator cab and chassis. Simultaneously, the County will issue a new solicitation for the manufacture and assembly of the pump module, hose-body and accessory components with the agreed upon changes developed from the prototype unit. Obviously, given the fragile condition of the current fleet of pumpers, proceeding in this manner provides the most expeditious opportunity for timely delivery and to continue to introduce CAFS to the MCFRS while preserving the severe duty cab and chassis.



At this time, it is important to focus our efforts on the achievements we continue to enjoy in the Apparatus Section including the nine aerials and two hazardous materials units that are ahead of schedule. As I write this correspondence, we are working diligently to place in service the remaining six of seventeen EMS units that are uniformly equipped with the best gear available to meet our severe duty mission. Additionally, we are proceeding with the overhaul of the two aerial ladders assigned to T-12 and T-25. We anticipate having both units back in service within ninety days.



I assure you that the MCFRS personnel involved in this project remain focused with success in mind. Thanks to A/C Steve Lohr, Mr. Richard Riffe, B/C Mike Hamilton, Chief George Brown, MFF Donnie Simmons, and Mr. Craig Ferguson for their continued focus on this complex and critical project. I am confident that your cooperation and professionalism will help us reach all of our goals as soon as possible. "

[Guest]

Wonder what the unresolved business issues were/are?

[Guest]

I kinda knew this was coming due to Elite going bankrupt and all that negativeness...

[Guest]

If they couldn't see that writing on the wall they must have been blind. We have been talking about that occuring for a while now at the station. Can't wait to see what is going to happen now. Rumor was that KME was next in line so I can't wait. One thing I hope they do is look over that hose bed and come up with something different.

[Guest]

They should just add the new wagons onto the already in progress Pierce MFG. order.

[Tillerman1664]

[quote name='keepinitsafe' post='159499' date='Oct 29 2007, 16:35 ']They should just add the new wagons onto the already in progress Pierce MFG. order.[/quote]



And do what with the 36 Spartan Gladiator cab and chassis, we own?

[Guest]

Marshall, will the county purchasing office be sending you band-aids, rubber bands, and chewing gum to keep the current Seagrave and Freightshaker engines rolling??? <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hysterical.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[Tillerman1664]

[quote name='Dr. Stinebaugh' post='159508' date='Oct 29 2007, 17:23 ']Marshall, will the county purchasing office be sending you band-aids, rubber bands, and chewing gum to keep the current Seagrave and Freightshaker engines rolling??? <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hysterical.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />[/quote]



No, they will be sending them out for those junky Spartans, our Seagrave and Freightshakers WILL out last them. <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/machinegun.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[Guest]

I'll keep ridin mine!!!!!

[hp1530]

[quote name='Lime Guy' post='159475' date='Oct 29 2007, 11:56 ']Wonder what the unresolved business issues were/are?[/quote]



From reading that memo, I wonder myself too what the problems are. I thought the County was going to continue with the remaining 36 rigs after getting the prototype one.

[Guest]

[quote name='Tillerman1664' post='159506' date='Oct 29 2007, 17:18 ']And do what with the 36 Spartan Gladiator cab and chassis, we own?[/quote]



Well, I guess you could have another manufacturing company build bodies for you guys. 4 Guys in PA builds a pretty solid rig and does alot of work with the Spartan Chassis. Also you have Crimson who builds a pretty solid rig as well.

[johnward]

[quote name='keepinitsafe' post='159629' date='Oct 29 2007, 20:27 ']Well, I guess you could have another manufacturing company build bodies for you guys. 4 Guys in PA builds a pretty solid rig and does alot of work with the Spartan Chassis. Also you have Crimson who builds a pretty solid rig as well.[/quote]



I wonder if the county had a surety bond written on this contract or other insurance coverage that could cover any losses? I know this is something Pierce pitches as a benefit of their factory. Seems like if the county entered into a contract and purchased 37 chassis with the intent of having Elite build bodies on them and now Elite cannot meet the contract it can lead to a lot of unexpected costs. Said costs would include having to spec and bid another contract, potential for higher costs for the new contract, potential for sub-optimal build quality and associated higher lifetime maintenance costs and lowered resale value on the 36 chassis since they were built for the Elite spec (not the spec they will now be built on) and the continued cost for "bubblegum and duct tape" to keep older rigs on the road beyond their expected retirement. If any of the chassis can't be used there will also be a cost for the loss on the sale to dispose of the chassis. Given the cost of fuel you could even tack on the higher fuel costs of the older rigs vs. those of what I assume would be more fuel efficient Spartan-Elites.



What a mess, I hope the county doesn't lose their shirt on this and I hope they find a builder who will build on the Spartan chassis that are already owned by the county. It does beg the question though as to why more due diligence wasn't done by the county's purchasing department before this contract was signed. If you assume each rig is $350,000 then a 37 rig order would ring out at $12,950,000. That is a serious chunk of money to risk on a company that is not only bankrupt, but so insolvent that their suppliers won't extend them credit based on a contract of that size (I assume this is why the contract was canceled, their inability to fulfill it within time limits).



It does sound like the Chief did the right thing, as much as this may be a financial and operational hit. The county could have been burned a lot more if they got a fleet of rigs built by a company that was teetering on the brink of bankruptcy and was cutting corners to cut costs and then went out of business after delivery and left the county with a fleet of rigs that always broke and couldn't be repaired under warranty and without access to factory parts.



At least rig #1 looks nice.



John

[tcosgrovejones]

[quote name='johnward' post='159678' date='Oct 30 2007, 01:31 ']At least rig #1 looks nice.



John[/quote]



It might look nice <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hysterical.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />( YOu have got to be Kidding ME) but it was not user friendly <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsdown.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



Cosdgr <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/stirpot.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[Guest]

[quote name='keepinitsafe' post='159629' date='Oct 29 2007, 23:27 ']Well, I guess you could have another manufacturing company build bodies for you guys. 4 Guys in PA builds a pretty solid rig and does alot of work with the Spartan Chassis. Also you have Crimson who builds a pretty solid rig as well.[/quote]



I'll praise Central States til I do <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_crazy.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_crazy.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_crazy.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_crazy.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[Guest]

Our local (now former) Elite dealer, who is on a neighboring department and sold us our truck, told me today that the official word from Elite Fire Apparatus is that all employees are "laid off" until further notice.



As of today they're not taking any further orders and the status of trucks which were in production are questionable at best.

[Guest]

I'm kind of surprised that Crimson hasn't said that they'll take on the task of building the 36 trucks on the cabs that they already built...