[quote name='WAGONMAN' post='131369' date='Jul 20 2007, 18:46 ']Nice pics. If you go by the County's press release, it's not to spec.[/quote]
I never said I like them "Wagon", I just take pictuers of them. <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hysterical.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />
A large part of my collection was purchased from a GOOD man, John Floyd. I give him FULL credit on his work, although I may miss something. Thanks John. Also Scott Mattson, Warren Jenkins, Michael Schwartzberg, and Mike Sanders. Thanks Guys.
You know, Ron and Tillerman and anyone else on here, I want to say so much about these "Elite" things, but I guess only time will tell. Being a Montgomery County Firefighter, it certainly sounds like Tillerman isn't real happy with them, but then it also sounds like you don't apparently like E-Ones or Sutphens either!!! I think the truth of the matter is that nothing is made like it used to be. And with Elite, being a relatively new kid on the block, only time will tell if they can handle the load. I know so many people on here seem to love Pierce, but the truth there is that they don't really do a great job either! Twice today, Anne Arundel County MD's only Pierce Engine, Eng 321 (and I'm not talking about volunteer Pierces), had to go to the shop for repairs. In major metropolitan and even "suburban" communities today, we run all of these pieces, no matter who makes them, into the ground! How can anyone really judge which is the better apparatus?
If I have offended anyone, I am truly sorry, but with all the **** I see on here about which is the better apparatus, I think we really need to look at the whole big picture. If you are in a department that runs 200-300 calls a year, and there are many of them in this great country of ours, yes, you expect your Pierce or E\-One or Sutphen or Seagrave or KME or even Elite to hold up and perform well. But when you run the piece into the ground on all the **** calls we run today, what do you expect? Just my two cents, and yes I fully expect to be blasted on here!!! So be it from an old ******* who many of you probably think doesn't know any better.
[quote name='taurudak' post='131388' date='Jul 20 2007, 19:35 ']You know, Ron and Tillerman and anyone else on here, I want to say so much about these "Elite" things, but I guess only time will tell. Being a Montgomery County Firefighter, it certainly sounds like Tillerman isn't real happy with them, but then it also sounds like you don't apparently like E-Ones or Sutphens either!!! I think the truth of the matter is that nothing is made like it used to be. And with Elite, being a relatively new kid on the block, only time will tell if they can handle the load. I know so many people on here seem to love Pierce, but the truth there is that they don't really do a great job either! Twice today, Anne Arundel County MD's only Pierce Engine, Eng 321 (and I'm not talking about volunteer Pierces), had to go to the shop for repairs. In major metropolitan and even "suburban" communities today, we run all of these pieces, no matter who makes them, into the ground! How can anyone really judge which is the better apparatus?
If I have offended anyone, I am truly sorry, but with all the **** I see on here about which is the better apparatus, I think we really need to look at the whole big picture. If you are in a department that runs 200-300 calls a year, and there are many of them in this great country of ours, yes, you expect your Pierce or E\-One or Sutphen or Seagrave or KME or even Elite to hold up and perform well. But when you run the piece into the ground on all the **** calls we run today, what do you expect? Just my two cents, and yes I fully expect to be blasted on here!!! So be it from an old ******* who many of you probably think doesn't know any better.
Joe Dooley[/quote]
Joe has a good point. I really bit my tongue and didn't comment, because there are some good ideas on the rig's design, in my opinion. I'm actually kind of glad to see Elite didn't go under, as was rumored to be happening, simply because I don't want to see departments or workers lose out. Let's hope these rigs hold up for the department's sake, because no one wants a rig that doesn't function.
On a positive note, I really like the all red paint, the arrow sticks on the upper body on the sides and the ladder on the officer's side. I perused the press release real quick, what isn't to spec on the rig? I notice no Q siren, but I didn't take time to really thoroughly check.
First, let me say that anyone that knows me, knows that I make fun of as much as I can. Fire Fighters know, I'm sure the non fire fighters don't, but we survive on it. Not only do we survive on banter, but at times we need it to save our lives. IF we take this stuff too serious, Lord knows where we will end up. It's called "Gallow's Humor". And for any of us that don't understand it, we need to check our feelings at the control tab.
That being said, Congratulations to Chief Lohr and the apparatus team. Not only do I applaude them, I give them a standing ovation. Their expertise has carried us lightyears into the future on a shoe string budget in a matter of months. In all seriousness, I am optimistic about these units. There are some extremely great ideas on them. I'll even give CAFS a try and the benefit of the doubt, until it proves me wrong.
Looking at this vehicle, from what I have seen of it, which is limited exposure, I can't see where this vehicle is going to be user friendly (in most situations). Look at the small open compartment on the rear. Also take a look on the officer's pump panel. The upper open compartments with the netting to the far left, these are where the standpipe packs are supposed to be carried. For someone who works at a company that takes a standpipe pack on every adaptive we run, and that's no BS, this is not going to be an easy task. Whomever designed the rear compartment to hold a short standpipe pack, has obviously never carried one up fifteen floors recently. They'd throw that piece of junk in the trash and get a long one faster than they could write out a transfer. Oh...wait, a long pack isn't going to fit there, is it? A raised cab....why? Not only is there no reason for us to stand up in the crew compartment, but it violates our safety policies. What's in that dead space behind the arrow boards above the compartments? I can probably keep going....
Yes, for a metropolitan area, we do run the rigs into the ground. I am responsible for the two remaining Sutphens every 3 days in the reserve fleet. You can come see first hand, I can confidently say they are not worth their weight and bubblegum, shoe string and duct tape holding them together. As for the E-Ones, when is the last time you rode on one of those from our system? I am driving one as we speak. There is a 4 inch opening between the door and the door jam, because the thing won't shut correctly. I could make the list go on and on. How come our 80 era Seagraves have over 100,000 miles on them and are the best thing we have in the fleet? Our early 90's and late 90's are just as good. Take any unit apart, take the drive train, and the chassie out of the equation, because they are all the same, and they tend to hold up no matter where you are. What components are you left with? A cab and a body. Elite is building the body. And the bodies are generally what holds up. And again, I am optimistic that they will. Go to 30 and 10. Those are Spartan cabs....ahhhahhhahhahhahha, on the top of the list of the biggest pieces of junk in this County.
I have a lot of experience in the all the geographical areas in the County and these are WAY too big. Because of our demographics, we should be building two types of engines; a rural engine with a lot of water - min. of 1000 gallons and an urban engine that's short and to the point. Why are we carrying all this junk? A wagon needs to do two functions; put water in it and get water out of it. Outside of EMS, make our special services run the calls they should be on. That's why we are running these things into the ground.
Keep in mind, I'm not an outsider criticizing my department, criticizing my department's faults.I am a member of my department criticizing my dept.'s faults.
I'm glad you spoke up. I'm glad you didn't hold your tongue anymore. That's what a FORUM is about; good conversation. I commend you for being involved. Because that's all this is. And if anyone sees it any differently, I say again, check your feelings at the control tab.
Marshall
A large part of my collection was purchased from a GOOD man, John Floyd. I give him FULL credit on his work, although I may miss something. Thanks John. Also Scott Mattson, Warren Jenkins, Michael Schwartzberg, and Mike Sanders. Thanks Guys.
[quote name='Ashes' post='131433' date='Jul 20 2007, 21:15 ']Nice truck. Lots of nice ideas. What was the reasoning for the 2 arrow sticks on the sides?[/quote]
Our SOP's now require a traffic control unit to respond on PIC calls involved on dangerous roadways; such as interstates. The SOP's require that unit to sit across the travel lanes at an angle to act as a safety device.
A large part of my collection was purchased from a GOOD man, John Floyd. I give him FULL credit on his work, although I may miss something. Thanks John. Also Scott Mattson, Warren Jenkins, Michael Schwartzberg, and Mike Sanders. Thanks Guys.
<img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/BananaMan.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> 1960 Seagrave K-series 1000/300, sold to Frostburg,MD. in 1977, sold to a business owner in Allegany Co.,MD., in 1988 who allowed it to die a slow roadside death, remains finally carted off to a Cumberland,MD. scrapyard in 1998.
[quote name='taurudak' post='131388' date='Jul 20 2007, 20:35 ']You know, Ron and Tillerman and anyone else on here, I want to say so much about these "Elite" things, but I guess only time will tell. Being a Montgomery County Firefighter, it certainly sounds like Tillerman isn't real happy with them, but then it also sounds like you don't apparently like E-Ones or Sutphens either!!! I think the truth of the matter is that nothing is made like it used to be. And with Elite, being a relatively new kid on the block, only time will tell if they can handle the load. I know so many people on here seem to love Pierce, but the truth there is that they don't really do a great job either! Twice today, Anne Arundel County MD's only Pierce Engine, Eng 321 (and I'm not talking about volunteer Pierces), had to go to the shop for repairs. In major metropolitan and even "suburban" communities today, we run all of these pieces, no matter who makes them, into the ground! How can anyone really judge which is the better apparatus?
If I have offended anyone, I am truly sorry, but with all the **** I see on here about which is the better apparatus, I think we really need to look at the whole big picture. If you are in a department that r200-300 calls a year, and there are many of them in this great country of ours, yes, you expect your Pierce or E\-One or Sutphen or Seagrave or KME or even Elite to hold up and perform well. But when you run the piece into the ground on all the **** calls we run today, what do you expect? Just my two cents, and yes I fully expect to be blasted on here!!! So be it from an old ******* who many of you probably think doesn't know any better.
Joe Dooley[/quote]
Joe,
That was a satirical remark. I think we should all know that there is no such thing as a 30 day money back guarantee on a fire rig. There are several features I like on this rig, IE: the lower rear hose beds, the ladder to get up to the top of the rig, rather then the small hinged steps that are on most rigs. Marshall summed it up very nicely. In an urban, suburban, and rural jurisdiction, no one size fits all. Each rig should be designed to fit the responses it will attend. I hope that the first couple of rigs delivered and used will be evaluated for design and/or spec problems, and corrected over the 24 month period that the rigs are produced.
Joe has a good point. I really bit my tongue and didn't comment, because there are some good ideas on the rig's design, in my opinion. I'm actually kind of glad to see Elite didn't go under, as was rumored to be happening, simply because I don't want to see departments or workers lose out. Let's hope these rigs hold up for the department's sake, because no one wants a rig that doesn't function.
On a positive note, I really like the all red paint, the arrow sticks on the upper body on the sides and the ladder on the officer's side. I perused the press release real quick, what isn't to spec on the rig? I notice no Q siren, but I didn't take time to really thoroughly check.
--Joel
[/quoteh
Joel,
I to have no desire to see any manufacturer of apparatus go out of business, but when someone posted about the E\-One Quest and "claimed that the Quest was the final nail in E\-One's coffin, and doing cart wheels over this so called possibility, I didn't see a response from you, or others, about the lost of jobs and grief that this would have caused. I did comment on this negativity, and judging from an e-mail I received, I was told I was wrong for defending E\-One. The writer claimed that although he wasn't a firefighter, but a buff, he knew all about fire trucks, and that only Pierce was worthy of being sold. Funny, I've been involve with fire trucks for 40 years, and I don't presume to know everything about them.
But let's get back to the issue of manufacturers going out of business. The price of apparatus is not going down, but up rapidly. As this happens they, the manufacturers look at ways to reduce their overhead. One of my concerns is NAFTA. American auto manufacturers as well as many others, have moved some of their component plants to both Canada and Mexico. It would not surprise me if one or more apparatus companies do the same. I would hate to eventually see a "Made in Mexico" label on some rigs, or a % of components made elsewhere and an " Assembled in America" label applied.. These big ticket rigs are also exported by several manufactures . Our export market is shrinking, and although these rigs don't add up to billions of dollars each year, they are USA products going abroad. I like the "Made in USA" label on things. When someone says that only Pierce, E\-One, or Seagrave should dominate the market, this stifles competition, product reliability, innovations, and causes a myriad of other problems. Competition is good. For each manufacturing job, there are 3-1/2 other jobs ranging from suppliers to local economy jobs that would suffer. Fortunately, the bulk of fire trucks are made in the USA.
As to the Elite rig for Montgomery County, I see several good things about it, IE: The ladder to the top of the hose bed, rather then the little hinged folding steps, the lower hose beds, the color keyed gauges, etc. The remark I made was satirical. You and I know fully well that no manufacturer offers a 30 day money back guarantee. As I stated previously, I hope that any design and/or spec problems are caught on the first few rigs made, and over this 24 month program corrected on the others.
[quote name='Ladder 68' post='131593' date='Jul 21 2007, 09:16 ']Is the apparatus unit number 727 normally associated with the Fire Training Academy or is this an indication of a new department numbering system?
Thanks.[/quote]
Both, the new system will use 7 in front of ALL numbering, 27 IS the Academy. If it were under the OLD numbering system, it would be E 271.
A large part of my collection was purchased from a GOOD man, John Floyd. I give him FULL credit on his work, although I may miss something. Thanks John. Also Scott Mattson, Warren Jenkins, Michael Schwartzberg, and Mike Sanders. Thanks Guys.
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