Pierce: The Legacy Grows

[Juice]

I was told yesterday, if I remember correctly these will be coming out in 3 Tiers, this is Tier 1, the second will be around August, and the third in December, each adding different options. I can't remember when, but the PUC and 75' aerial will be announced in 1 of them, along with different safety features. If you're interested in one, and can hold off a little while, you can get a lot more options.


I'm still trying to get an answer on the one that was decaled for Jacksonville, FL.


Trav!

[npfd801]

Having sold against Pierce (it has been years since I sold rigs), I admire their fantastic marketing that breeds a loyalty like no other.  They have that part nailed.

 

The Enforcer didn't impress me all that much, they took what the competetion was using to sell against them and fixed those issues.

 

Really wish Spartan and Pierce wouldn't hype up what are at best incremental product improvements calling them revolutionary, etc.  Revolutionary was something like the Quantum when no one was doing that.  Whether I like it or not, it was a major leap in cab design concept at the time.  Rosenbauer's Commander was a pretty big jump with regards to dash board design and layout. 

 

One of the neatest things I saw on a cab?  Sutphen had integrated hooks on top of the grab handles on the cab for hanging turnout gear off of while the rig is in quarters.  Much better than hanging it off the window crank handles that aren't designed for the weight.

[Roto-Ray]

Joel,

 

You're right about Pierce having the marketing side of things nailed like no other manufacturer does.  A lot of people have said, "all the hype for this?" when it's nothing quite as big as the release of the Quantum or the Dash CF.  But, it works!  They hype it some, then it gets people taking about it on the forums and the Facebook pages, which translates into free advertising for them, and even though it's not a huge cab release, here we are still talking about it days later.  This is the stuff that marketing firms dream of.

 

As for the Enforcer cab itself, it will provide you with the option for a big block, TAK4, and airbags, things that you won't find on the updated Saber.

 

All Saber products will come from Florida, and the Enforcers will be an Appleton product.

 

The Saber and Enforcer are 96" wide cabs whereas the Velocity and Impel are 100" cabs.

 

Piece is trying to address the fact that a lot of customers are asking for a traditional looking cab without sacrificing some of the features that are found on their other models.

 

The Enforcer will be competing with the Impel SLT and the Arrow XT, and I'd have to say that of those chassis, the Enforcer would be my choice.  It's a more simplistic cab with more officer's room than the XT and more traditional looks than the Impel.

 

Let the speculation begin about what will be the next chassis axed.  When you're offering the Saber, Impel SLT, Impel, Saber, Enforcer, Velocity, Arrow XT, Dash CF, and Quantum but only selling about 1600 rigs a year, something will have to give to keep the engineering and production costs down.

[firescooby]

One of the neatest things I saw on a cab?  Sutphen had integrated hooks on top of the grab handles on the cab for hanging turnout gear off of while the rig is in quarters.  Much better than handing it off the window crank handles that aren't designed for the weight.

You can thank Dekalb County GA for that.

 

When we transitioned from the typical 3 piece grab rails to solid stainless steel...the tops were rounded and you couldn't hang your coat as before.

 

These stainless steel hooks were the answer. Every truck we sell them has them, along with most trucks everyone sells now.

 

My 2 cents...coats don't belong there...the coat hardware will scratch the paint.

[TacSupport1]

I don't see how a truck committee would decide what chassis they'd want with so man similarities. I know that a few dealers "recommend" certain chassis.

The PUC was pretty revolutionary, I'd like to see Pierce introduce things beyond the cab.

[Roto-Ray]

I don't see how a truck committee would decide what chassis they'd want with so man similarities. I know that a few dealers "recommend" certain chassis.

 

When I asked a couple of dealers how they'd choose which cab they'd recommend to a customer (between the Enforcer and the Velocity), I got little feedback.  "Depends on what cab width they want" was the most that I could get.

[Guest]

Something I noticed about both "new" chassis is the height from ground to step, mighty tall step there. Not sure if this is due to all the new emissions stuff that is under the engine cowl with the engine sitting higher on frame rails or what, but you almost need a 2' step ladder to get in them, gonna force a lot of depts. to opt for the optional drop steps at $1000 each!

[Roto-Ray]

I didn't really notice that when I climbed in them, but it could be dependent on the individual and what they're used to.

[BHFire13]

I guess im pretty disappointed with both cabs, im sorry I liked the old Saber better in terms of the look of the cab, and the Enforcer I guess I got over excited. I was exspecting to see the orginal one again with the big orange turn signals next to the head lights but forget it, its gone forever....

[Juice]

As I read over some of these comments, it's funny to me, because I now know I'm not the only one thinking some of these things. In regards to the height, I also didn't really noticed much of a difference, if any, to step up into the truck. I do agree that an updated true "Enforcer" would have been a great welcome, but alas, this is no different than the Dash CF, the name is the same, the design is NOTHING in comparison. I'm not sure which Saber was being compared to this one, because the most recent (2006-2014 era cabs) look pretty identical still, with subtle changes. If you look at a few photos of the years I just put, you'll noticed small changes that increased each year.

 

To answer Seth's question about deciding between the two, let me give you an example like this;

My department has a very "restrained" budget, our last Saber came in at around $360,000-$380,000 I honestly can't remember. I look at the new cabs, as we will be ordering another truck within the next couple of years, and here are the things I look at; I'd like to have the Enforcer's grille, I'd like to ride on Tak-4 suspension this time, I like the more rugged, heavier-duty cab that the Enforcer offers. Now, let me tell you what determines which one we go for... the final price!

 

Trav!

[YeOldeEnjine]

removed

[TacSupport1]

The Arrow XT (EXtreme Tilt) was built initially for the LAFD contract. And it was marketed as the rugged chasis among the Pierce lineup. Does Pierce even have an "Extreme Duty" cab, like KME?

[BHFire13]

[quote name="TacSupport1" post="533357" timestamp="1397502952"]The Arrow XT (EXtreme Tilt) was built initially for the LAFD contract. And it was marketed as the rugged chasis among the Pierce lineup. Does Pierce even have an "Extreme Duty" cab, like KME?[/quote


Hey TacSupport1 from my understanding over the years and ive been following the company product line sinse 2006, correct me if im wrong anyone but the Arrow XT is there version of a server service chassis, and thats why it hasent gotten the axe yet from the line up even after the Velocity and Impel came about.

[BHFire13]

Hey Roto-Ray as for the speculation on the next cab getting axed ill start it off I guess.


As for the next cab being axed from the line id put my money on the Impel because originally when the Impel was introduced it replaced the Saber, but the Saber had such a strong market with smaller departments and cash strapped budgets it was still cheaper than the Impel so they brought back the Saber as the once again choice of custom cab low cost apparatus and the Impel became the low cost version of the Velocity, but now with the new upgrades to the Saber and the resurrection of the Enforcer even if it only be the name, and the Dash CF now hear to stay the only logical choice would be the Impel, its the only rig in the line up that has a twin for the most part, the only other rig I could think of would be the Quantum Chassis becuase of the price but I still think its a long shot I think that chassis well be around for a few more years it survived the resession so that I think says enough.

quote name="Roto-Ray" post="533287" timestamp="1397407237"]Joel,

 

You're right about Pierce having the marketing side of things nailed like no other manufacturer does.  A lot of people have said, "all the hype for this?" when it's nothing quite as big as the release of the Quantum or the Dash CF.  But, it works!  They hype it some, then it gets people taking about it on the forums and the Facebook pages, which translates into free advertising for them, and even though it's not a huge cab release, here we are still talking about it days later.  This is the stuff that marketing firms dream of.

 

As for the Enforcer cab itself, it will provide you with the option for a big block, TAK4, and airbags, things that you won't find on the updated Saber.

 

All Saber products will come from Florida, and the Enforcers will be an Appleton product.


The Saber and Enforcer are 96" wide cabs whereas the Velocity and Impel are 100" cabs.

 

Piece is trying to address the fact that a lot of customers are asking for a traditional looking cab without sacrificing some of the features that are found on their other models.

 

The Enforcer will be competing with the Impel SLT and the Arrow XT, and I'd have to say that of those chassis, the Enforcer would be my choice.  It's a more simplistic cab with more officer's room than the XT and more traditional looks than the Impel.

 

Let the speculation begin about what will be the next chassis axed.  When you're offering the Saber, Impel SLT, Impel, Saber, Enforcer, Velocity, Arrow XT, Dash CF, and Quantum but only selling about 1600 rigs a year, something will have to give to keep the engineering and production costs down.[/quote]

[Roto-Ray]

Hey Roto-Ray as for the speculation on the next cab getting axed ill start it off I guess.


As for the next cab being axed from the line id put my money on the Impel because originally when the Impel was introduced it replaced the Saber, but the Saber had such a strong market with smaller departments and cash strapped budgets it was still cheaper than the Impel so they brought back the Saber as the once again choice of custom cab low cost apparatus and the Impel became the low cost version of the Velocity, but now with the new upgrades to the Saber and the resurrection of the Enforcer even if it only be the name, and the Dash CF now hear to stay the only logical choice would be the Impel, its the only rig in the line up that has a twin for the most part, the only other rig I could think of would be the Quantum Chassis becuase of the price but I still think its a long shot I think that chassis well be around for a few more years it survived the resession so that I think says enough.

 

Couple of quick corrections:  The Saber was never axed and brought back, it always been around in two forms.  One is the Saber, the other was the original Customer Contender, which was a Saber cab without the windown between the front and rear cab doors (the window was later added as an option for the CC).

 

When the Velocity and Impel were introduced they were specifically designed to be the replacement for the Dash and Enforcer, respectively.  The idea was the the Impel would the "lower tier" model with more limited motor, transmission, and size options, whereas the Velocity would have everything available.  Of course, this is about the same time that the Lance was also nixed from production, but very few Velocity split-tilts have been built that I know of (I've only seen one in person myself).

 

Yes, the Arrow XT was built as a non-multiplexed heavy-duty chassis for the LAFD, and it's popularity never really soared until the discontinuation of the Dash, Lance, and Enforcer. Lots of customers wanted that traditional fire engine look, which the XT offered.  As sales increased, so did the option list for the XT, including multiplexed wiring packages.

 

I'd be surprised to see the XT in it's existing form stay around for another three years.  There aren't any other chassis using this outside skin, so it would make sense to take some of the features that have made the XT popular and work them into a heavier Enforcer cab/chassis combination.  Pierce would be down to four cab skins at that point (Quantum, Velocity/Impel, Enforcer/Saber, Dash CF), saving on the production costs and time at that point.  Of course, that's pure speculation on my part.

[BHFire13]

Couple of quick corrections:  The Saber was never axed and brought back, it always been around in two forms.  One is the Saber, the other was the original Customer Contender, which was a Saber cab without the windown between the front and rear cab doors (the window was later added as an option for the CC).

 

When the Velocity and Impel were introduced they were specifically designed to be the replacement for the Dash and Enforcer, respectively.  The idea was the the Impel would the "lower tier" model with more limited motor, transmission, and size options, whereas the Velocity would have everything available.  Of course, this is about the same time that the Lance was also nixed from production, but very few Velocity split-tilts have been built that I know of (I've only seen one in person myself).

 

Yes, the Arrow XT was built as a non-multiplexed heavy-duty chassis for the LAFD, and it's popularity never really soared until the discontinuation of the Dash, Lance, and Enforcer. Lots of customers wanted that traditional fire engine look, which the XT offered.  As sales increased, so did the option list for the XT, including multiplexed wiring packages.

 

I'd be surprised to see the XT in it's existing form stay around for another three years.  There aren't any other chassis using this outside skin, so it would make sense to take some of the features that have made the XT popular and work them into a heavier Enforcer cab/chassis combination.  Pierce would be down to four cab skins at that point (Quantum, Velocity/Impel, Enforcer/Saber, Dash CF), saving on the production costs and time at that point.  Of course, that's pure speculation on my part.

thanks for the corrections, I feel really small now, I could have sworn I remeber the saber being pulled from the website like 7 years ago guess my memory isint what it used to be... but then again this is why im hear, so you guys can set the record thanks again hope I didnt come off as a know it all.

[Roto-Ray]

No problem at all brother, we're all here to pass along industry and hobby knowledge.

[chief60]

I will agree with BHFIre13's statement about the Impel & Velocity SLT going away. I think they will be rolled into 1 with the Velocity. The only real differences are the options available.

[southwheatland514]

A few things I don't care for of the new trucks being made; both by Pierce (Dash CF) and Rosenbauer (Commander) are the 1 piece windshields, it's a truck, not a car,

 

Trav!

 

We just took delivery of a new Pierce Impel and the one piece windshield visibility is amazing.  The comment above intrigued me because I would like to see other builders go with one-piece windshields. 

 

As far as the "Its a truck, not a car" comment....new International, Volvo, and Peterbuilt OTR trucks all have single piece windshields.  The only one I have seen so far that does not have a single piece windshield is Freightliner.

[southwheatland514]

 

 

The Enforcer will be competing with the Impel SLT and the Arrow XT, and I'd have to say that of those chassis, the Enforcer would be my choice.

 

Let the speculation begin about what will be the next chassis axed.  When you're offering the Saber, Impel SLT, Impel, Saber, Enforcer, Velocity, Arrow XT, Dash CF, and Quantum but only selling about 1600 rigs a year, something will have to give to keep the engineering and production costs down.

 

What does the "SLT" stand for?