Pierce Dash CF

[Guest]

I was wondring if anybody of any dept has bought a Pierce Dash CF chassis rig? I do not think any have been sold as of yet. I have been on Peirce Website at least once a week looking at new deliveries and have not seen one. I see that they now offer the CF Dash as a ladder truck. I find it interesting that the chassis has been around for over a year and I have not seen one in any dept. Any one have any info on this?

[Roto-Ray]

The first one has been delivered to [url="http://www.siddonsfire.com/custom/page/pumpers"]Cedar Hill, TX[/url].



There are some on order as well, including Middletown, VA; and Belvedere, DE.

[daviddnb]

One was on order for Cowansville, Québec, Canada.



My personnal mechanical opinion: a lot of problem after a couple years of service.

[firesafe91]

Bloomington, IL has one on order scheduled for delivery later this year. Supposed to be placed in service as E6 at the Central Illinois Regional Airport.

[lsfdcapt31123]

daviddnb,



I hope it lasts longer than a couple of years. Ours should be here early next year.

[Guest]

Cedar Knolls Fire Department in NJ has one on order.

[cml0774]

I dont get it; doesnt look driver friendly. The pump panel being so low it looks you have to keep bending over to do anything and you have to avoid the attack lines rite above the pump panel. There is alot of room for the driver and officer but you inconveince the crew in the back; just my opinion but I would rather have the room for the crew in the back.

[Roto-Ray]

[quote name='cml0774' timestamp='1342628129' post='492556']

I dont get it; doesnt look driver friendly. The pump panel being so low it looks you have to keep bending over to do anything and you have to avoid the attack lines rite above the pump panel.[/quote]

This isn't a feature of the Dash CF, this is part of the PUC body and pump system. For departments that don't fight a lot of fire, and don't need to access intake/discharge panels routinely, it's probably not much of an issue.

There is alot of room for the driver and officer but you inconveince the crew in the back; just my opinion but I would rather have the room for the crew in the back.

Some departments that only routinely run with 3 or 4 personnel aren't taking nearly the apprehension to the rear engine tunnel that some volunteer departments are. We (the fire service) successfully rode with a rear engine tunnel for decades, and some departments feel like that it doesn't take away from their firefighter's needs, and still provides the officer some much-desired leg and elbow room. I suppose each department has to weigh the benefits and downsides of this cab design.

[Athomas5784]

Wichita Fire Dept has just ordered I believe 18-20 Dash CF Engines and 3 Dash CF Platforms over 4 years. First delivery this year is 8 engines and 1 platform. I was curious about what excatly PUC means? I understand its Pierce Ultimate Configuration, but WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? Does ordering a PUC make it cheaper than piecing together a apparatus? Someone mentioned that the Dash CF will be a pain mechanically in a couple years, why do you think that? Some guys around Wichita think they got dueped into the Dash CF because no other large orderds have been placed for this chasis yet and Pierce is going to use their large Order as an example of the Dash CF being reliable. Please help educate me!

[Guest]

PUC = Pierce Ultimate Configuration - just another selling point where they put the pump controls inside of the truck body and all the plumbing under the rear extension of the cab.  They say it creates more compartment space (square footage) but with the pump contraols taking up more than 1/2 of the first driver side compartment, I'm still not sold.  However it does cut down on the wheelbase length without the standard pump housing.

 

Also a side note, I do not think you are able to get a PUC equipped with a pump greater than 1500 gpm.  I may be wrong on this but originally the way the plumbing was to the pump they could not get great than 1500 during testing.  This may have changed recently.

[npfd801]

Wichita Fire Dept has just ordered I believe 18-20 Dash CF Engines and 3 Dash CF Platforms over 4 years. First delivery this year is 8 engines and 1 platform. I was curious about what excatly PUC means? I understand its Pierce Ultimate Configuration, but WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? Does ordering a PUC make it cheaper than piecing together a apparatus? Someone mentioned that the Dash CF will be a pain mechanically in a couple years, why do you think that? Some guys around Wichita think they got dueped into the Dash CF because no other large orderds have been placed for this chasis yet and Pierce is going to use their large Order as an example of the Dash CF being reliable. Please help educate me!

 

The CF is a little different in that the cooling system is routed out from under the cab and actually is on the "roof" of the body behind the cab.  This is how they've accomplished so much room up front in the cab, as well as by moving the engine rearwards on the frame rails.  If you snoop around the internet you can see where this cooling system goes. This is why you won't see a CF cab on a top mount pumper, unless they go nuts running the plumbing for cooling ever further to the rear of the body (who knows, maybe they'll do it). The cooling system utilizes a hydraulic fan to blow cooling air over the radiator(s).  Interestingly there's already a recall regarding a cooling issue for the Dash CF if I'm not mistaken.

 

http://www.fireapparatusmagazine.com/art...rence.html

 

The PUC is a PTO driven pump as opposed to a split shaft.  PTOs have gotten stronger over the years, but are not as stout as a true split shaft coming off the transmission's main driveshaft.  PTOs are also supposedly more maintenance intensive as well.  And as has been mentioned, a PUC (and I believe every other PTO pump) is limited to 1,500 rpm or less, based on what the Allison transmissions can drive from their PTO ports, or REPTO (Rear Engine PTO) limitations.  I believe the PUC is a REPTO application, which are usually a bit "stouter" than what comes off the ports on an Allison transmission.  I can guarantee you one thing - my knowledge of all of this is not perfect, so forgive me if I'm wrong.

 

The argument about PTO durability and such may be a non issue now though with less and less fires and rigs not needing to pump as much as in years past.

[Roto-Ray]

I have knowledge of two major orders coming in from East Coast departments for CF's, so Wichita is simply the first of the large orders that I anticipate will be coming in for the CF.

 

As npfd stated, the Dash CF uses a remote-mounted radiator location - you can see the radiator and many other features of the cab from it's introduction at FDIC in this thread.

 

The pump powered by a REPTO, not a standard PTO.  This means that the pump shaft is spinning every second that the engine is on.

 

As for the PUC, as the others have said, this is a design to allow for additional compartment space through a more compact pump panel (located behind the first roll-up door) and discharge/intake panels.  One of our local Pierce reps showed me documetation about a year ago that stated that as of that day, they'd sold 611 of the PUCs - who knows how much that number has grown in that amount of time.

 

Of our 20-engine fleet at work, we have one PUC that we use as a rescue engine.  It was one of the very early PUCs built, and if we could go back and do it again, there would be a lot of things we'd change.

[B95MACKFIRE]

My dept has placed a Arrowxt PUC in service 2 years ago I was head of the truck comm and took a great chance on that design. But it fit our needs so well we went with it. I traveled all over to see the puc's that were in service at that time and found alot of things that are not on ours and talked to all the crews that ran them and got there input. As IZZYEng4 can tell you we are a very busy Dept and this PUC [Port Chester Engine 58] has a least 40 jobs under its belt to date and as been out of service only for PM and service.

[Guest]

Word is Baltimore City's next batch of pumpers will be Dash CF's. 

[johndanger]

I really didn't care for the idea of the PUC or the CF until I got to put my hands on one. The CF seems perfect for the northeast low manpower career departments that there are far too many of. Spacious cab for the 2 or 3 guys that will be in the rig. Driver's seat felt very comfortable. With the new motors causing the doghouse to be bigger, and the bailout ropes we have to carry in our bunkers, it's getting tight in the driver and officer's seats. Especially in the Spartans. The wide open front row is nice. As far as the PUC, I'm not crazy about how low the plumbing is but the compartments are laid out nicely. Seems like a good set up for a rescue engine or one that carries a lot of truck tools. Seems like a terrible design for a place that runs a lot of fire duty like Bmore. Just my opinion.

[ltjohnny]

I really didn't care for the idea of the PUC or the CF until I got to put my hands on one. The CF seems perfect for the northeast low manpower career departments that there are far too many of. Spacious cab for the 2 or 3 guys that will be in the rig. Driver's seat felt very comfortable. With the new motors causing the doghouse to be bigger, and the bailout ropes we have to carry in our bunkers, it's getting tight in the driver and officer's seats. Especially in the Spartans. The wide open front row is nice. As far as the PUC, I'm not crazy about how low the plumbing is but the compartments are laid out nicely. Seems like a good set up for a rescue engine or one that carries a lot of truck tools. Seems like a terrible design for a place that runs a lot of fire duty like Bmore. Just my opinion.

 

I had a chance to crawl around the CF and it had some very nice features.  The PUC I don't like as much as a traditional engine company design.  My question is, when are they going to figure out the cooling system so the CF can be offered in a standard engine company design (you know non-PUC)?  Maybe that is what Baltimore City is looking at.  Of course, they run some Squad/Engines and maybe that's what they are looking for in the PUC design.  I think if they offer the CF in a standard pump configuration they would sell even more.  Just my 2 cents...

 

Johnny C.

[Guest]

I had a chance to crawl around the CF and it had some very nice features.  The PUC I don't like as much as a traditional engine company design.  My question is, when are they going to figure out the cooling system so the CF can be offered in a standard engine company design (you know non-PUC)?  Maybe that is what Baltimore City is looking at.  Of course, they run some Squad/Engines and maybe that's what they are looking for in the PUC design.  I think if they offer the CF in a standard pump configuration they would sell even more.  Just my 2 cents...

 

Johnny C.

I have the preliminary specs for the Baltimore engines.  Unfortunately it is the PUC design.  For some odd reason the people who are in charge of purchasing our apparatus don't ride it and that has been why we have been so unhapy with our engine design for the past several orders.  We were hoping for Arrow XT's or even the Saber since Pierce is offering that as a cab option again.  As of right now all Baltimore has on order are two Pierce 100 ft TDAs.  I can only hope that they opt for a different cab option before signing a contract.  My company is due to get a new pumper and based on the specs measurements because of the "west coast mirror" design it will give me about 3" on either side of our door backing in. 

[drfeelgood]

I have the preliminary specs for the Baltimore engines.  Unfortunately it is the PUC design.  For some odd reason the people who are in charge of purchasing our apparatus don't ride it and that has been why we have been so unhapy with our engine design for the past several orders.  We were hoping for Arrow XT's or even the Saber since Pierce is offering that as a cab option again.  As of right now all Baltimore has on order are two Pierce 100 ft TDAs.  I can only hope that they opt for a different cab option before signing a contract.  My company is due to get a new pumper and based on the specs measurements because of the "west coast mirror" design it will give me about 3" on either side of our door backing in. 

The Saber was never removed from the cab line up. To be honest it's the best option in my opinion since the addtional options have been available to it.  

[Rob Pryor]

Wilmington, DE placed one of the original demos in service as Squad 3 in October and is about to take delivery of a custom built Dash CF PUC.  From my experience I like the compact pump configuration and the layout of the cab.  I DO NOT like the in body crosslays with the plastic hose trays.  They are a pain to deploy (granted the one my company uses is the demo that was built for 1.75" hose and we run 2") and a pain to repack.  Not a good idea for a congested urban area with small, tight streets.  We have had to pull to an intersection or go back to the station in order to replace the tray in the crosslay.  With all the problems, we have made our rear preconnected 2.5" a "dead load" and put at 200' preconnected 2" line in the rear discharge, the only company in the city with a rear 2" preconnect.  Not sure how well the crosslays will be for the new Squad 1, as we have been told they were designed for 2" hose, but we should find out quickly as that company runs quite a few working alarms 1st due.  Maintenance wise, so far our biggest issue has been the fuel gauge hasn't worked since day one, it has been pegged at full.  We have been told Pierce is "working on it".