Phoenix Metropolitan Area Fire Apparatus

[Guest]

[quote name='Image7801' timestamp='1352323413' post='502546']

LT-152's 2009 Spartan/SVI at the same accident.



[/quote]



What is a Ladder Tender exactly? what is carried on it? Looks like a Heavy Rescue to me....

[Image7801]

[quote name='countryEMT' timestamp='1352325038' post='502549']

What is a Ladder Tender exactly? what is carried on it? Looks like a Heavy Rescue to me....

[/quote]



An LT doesn't have all of the technical rescue equipment a typical heavy rescue would carry - That equipment is either carried on a Squad or a specialized rescue truck, which are called support units here in metro Phoenix.. I would almost call it a modern-day city service rig. They run on pretty much every ladder call except those that might require the aerial ladder. For example - Auto accidents (called 962's here), extrication's, medicals (they're only BLS, so any ALS would get the closest ALS engine), residential fires, etc... I don't know exactly all the protocols, but I've always heard they respond with whatever rig the officer determines is necessary to handle the incident from a truck company perspective.

[SrFireOfficial]

[quote name='Image7801' timestamp='1352335017' post='502580']

An LT doesn't have all of the technical rescue equipment a typical heavy rescue would carry - That equipment is either carried on a Squad or a specialized rescue truck, which are called support units here in metro Phoenix.. I would almost call it a modern-day city service rig. They run on pretty much every ladder call except reports of fire. For example - Auto accidents (called 962's here), extrication's, medicals (they're only BLS, so any ALS would get the closest ALS engine), residential fires, etc... I don't know exactly all the protocols, but I've always heard they respond with whatever rig the officer determines is necessary to handle the incident from a truck company perspective.

[/quote]



The fine folks on C-Shift at Ladder 1 in downtown Phoenix shared the protocol with me nearly 20 years ago when the LT's were first introduced: "Big call, take the big truck, little call, take the little truck."



The initial purpose of the LT's was to reduce the wear and tear on the (mostly) tiller ladder truck fleet that was in service in the PFD through the 1990's and; except for then Support 8, there were no traditional heavy rescue companies in the PFD; the ladder companies handled most of the extrication work. The company officer had/has the flexibility to take which ever rig he/she best met the mission of the call they were dispatched to and some elected to take the big rig all the time while others chose to take the LT as much as possible.



From what I have seen, some of the LT's in the surrounding jurisdictions have morphed into rigs the size closer to that of a heavy rescue but I haven't had a chance to visit them and learn more. Perhaps in early 2013 when I retire to the Valley of the Sun I can provide more updates.



PFD SOP on Ladder Tenders: [url="http://phoenix.gov/webcms/groups/internet/@inter/@dept/@fire/documents/web_content/074793.pdf"]http://phoenix.gov/webcms/groups/internet/@inter/@dept/@fire/documents/web_content/074793.pdf[/url]

[MFD76]

[quote name='countryEMT' timestamp='1352325038' post='502549']

What is a Ladder Tender exactly? what is carried on it? Looks like a Heavy Rescue to me....

[/quote]



Topeka, Kansas has used this concept for many years. They at first glance appear to be a custom cab rescue but a closer look reveals truck company equipment and ladders. Topeka uses the more traditional terminology of Truck Company for the City Service Trucks and Aerial for the Aerial Ladder apparatus. In the early days the door read Ladder Truck Company and Aerial Ladder Company. Topeka originally began using them in the more suburban areas that did not require an aerial. One or Two Trucks and Three or Four Aerials in the city. Over the years as a cost saving measure they moved to more Truck's and less Aerial's. Currently their are Four Trucks 3,9,10,11 and Two Aerials 5,8. They are planing in the next couple of year to add a seventh Truck Company and it will most likely be an Aerial Apparatus. All Trucks and Aerials are dry no pump or water. All are housed with an Engine Company although Truck Three ran during the mid to late 2000's for four years as a stand alone company until Engine 3 reopened.



Kansas City, Missouri from 1997 to 2004 implemented a seven rescue truck concept as a cost saving measure. This removed two tiller trucks, three pumpers, and six midi-pumpers. They purchased custom cab walk around rescues. Four of the seven were equipped with full ground ladders and took the place of the two tiller trucks and the farthest north and south mid-pumpers the other three were just tool wagons. All seven were called Rescue on the Radio. The concept never functioned as intended and all seven were eventually just manpower squads. The moved to three real heavy rescues with six man staffing in 2004-2005 and reopened one truck company and three pumpers also eliminating the three remaining 75ft Quints at the same time.



At one time City Service Trucks were very popular in the State of Kansas and the Kansas City Metro.



Rick

[jgroutley]

[quote name='countryEMT' timestamp='1352325038' post='502549']

What is a Ladder Tender exactly? what is carried on it? Looks like a Heavy Rescue to me....

[/quote] The simple answer is that a ladder tender is a smaller vehicle that a ladder company can use to respond to calls that do not require the "big" truck. The original idea was to save wear and tear on heavy apparatus and reduce operating costs. At the time (late 80's) truck companies in Phoenix were responding to medical incidents, car accidents and all kinds of other incidents other than structure fires.



The prototype ladder tender was a 4-door cab pick-up with a camper shell on the back end that was obtained through a trade with another city department. It was repainted white-over-red and given to Ladder 26 to try out the concept. The first unit carried BLS medical equipment, extrication tools and not much else. The company officer had the discretion to take either rig on a call, depending on the nature.



After about 6 months the idea seemed to be working, so the first custom built rigs were purchased. At that point the crews decided that they needed more "stuff". The new vehicles were rescue style boxes on larger 4-door cab commercial chassis. They carried a duplicate set of almost everything that was on the big truck except the aerial ladder. They had an SCBA and a complete second set of turnout gear for each crew member, lots of tools, a PPV fan and even a couple of short ground ladders --- just in case they happened to stumble upon a structure fire on the way back from a medical call.



Over the years they have morphed into vehicles that look like medium rescues on commercial or custom chassis. The key factor is that they are assigned to a ladder company and operate as an either/or vehicle.

[Image7801]

[quote name='JGRoutley' timestamp='1352349608' post='502617']

The simple answer is that a ladder tender is a smaller vehicle that a ladder company can use to respond to calls that do not require the "big" truck. The original idea was to save wear and tear on heavy apparatus and reduce operating costs. At the time (late 80's) truck companies in Phoenix were responding to medical incidents, car accidents and all kinds of other incidents other than structure fires.



The prototype ladder tender was a 4-door cab pick-up with a camper shell on the back end that was obtained through a trade with another city department. It was repainted white-over-red and given to Ladder 26 to try out the concept. The first unit carried BLS medical equipment, extrication tools and not much else. The company officer had the discretion to take either rig on a call, depending on the nature.



After about 6 months the idea seemed to be working, so the first custom built rigs were purchased. At that point the crews decided that they needed more "stuff". The new vehicles were rescue style boxes on larger 4-door cab commercial chassis. They carried a duplicate set of almost everything that was on the big truck except the aerial ladder. They had an SCBA and a complete second set of turnout gear for each crew member, lots of tools, a PPV fan and even a couple of short ground ladders --- just in case they happened to stumble upon a structure fire on the way back from a medical call.



Over the years they have morphed into vehicles that look like medium rescues on commercial or custom chassis. The key factor is that they are assigned to a ladder company and operate as an either/or vehicle.

[/quote]



It is interesting to note how different each City is with Ladder Tenders. Most of the LT's are medium rescue-sized (i.e. Freightliner/Pierce non-walk in's (Phoenix, Peoria), a very few (Tempe) are light rescues on Ford F-series, several are heavy rescue-sized (Pierce Quantum - Sun City, E\-One Typhoon - Surprise) and one City (Goodyear) even runs a pumper as an LT (Pierce Dash). I'll post a few examples.

[Guest]

Where does Peoria keep the reserve/spare engines ? 4 or 5 Engines ?

[Image7801]

[quote name='Qu6int' timestamp='1352385093' post='502630']

Where does Peoria keep the reserve/spare engines ? 4 or 5 Engines ?

[/quote]



Peoria has three dedicated reserve engines + one other that's technically a reserve but not really. When the new E-191 goes into service and 196's gets the ALF, three will be the identical 2004 E\-One/Saulsbury's and one is the 1999 IHC/E-One that is just for CAWRT (Central Arizona Wildland Response Team) responses on task forces. I know that one of the E\-One/Saulsbury's and the IHC/E-One are kept at Station 195, one E\-One/Saulsbury is being used as Engine 199 temporarily (until they get a new rig - more on that in a minute), but I'm not sure of the last one. It has to be at either 192's or 196's. Everywhere else is full.



Peoria got SAFER money this year to hire six new FF's to staff Station 199 (Lake Pleasant) full time. That station has traditionally only been day-manned, but no longer. Currently they are running an Engine, Brush, Fireboat and Ambo out of that station. There was money budgeted for two new brush trucks to replace the 2003 Ford F-550/E-Ones, but Engine 199 needs a rig of it's own, suitable for that area. So, they're going to buy a new Type 1x Interface Engine for Engine 199, then take the pump module off of one of the 2003 Ford/E-Ones and put it on a new chassis (Dodge, I'm hearing rumors of). That way they can get a new rig for E-199 and a rebuilt brush truck. I'll keep up on this and see if I can get a timeline.

[Image7801]

Back to the subject of Ladder Tenders, I thought I'd share a few photos. Some are mine, some are photographer unknown.



Here is Goodyear's first Ladder Tender, a 1988 Ford F-350/Stahl (if I remember correctly). It's a good example of the first generation LT in the 'valley.

   

Unknown photographer

[Image7801]

I'm not sure if they're still using this specific rig as LT-181, but something similar.



2002 Pierce Dash 1250/500

   

Unknown photographer

[Image7801]

Here is an example of Phoenix's second generation LT.



1992 IHC/E-One

   

[Image7801]

Here is Phoenix's current generation LT.



LT-11 201x Freightliner/Pierce



   

Sorry about the blurriness.

[Image7801]

Peoria's previous generation LT - 1996 IHC/E-One

   



and Peoria's current generation LT - 2008 Freightliner/Pierce

       

[firetrucks]

can you please post any photos you have of phoenix sky harbor's past and current apparatus?

[Guest]

AWESOME y'all!!!!! Thanks, this idea could definately implimented all over and even here in Central Florida from what I have read and would be a good idea I believe. Thanks again for all the input and information!!!!

[Guest]

Thanks for the info

Any word of Goodyear getting any new rigs? I heard that new a master planned development called Sedella

Perryvillle Rd to Cirtrus Rd and south of Camelback is giving Goodyear land for new station & $750,000 for a new Engine

and 5 Million dollars to pay for 13 firefighters for 5 years, Also Canta Mia is growing and Station 186 should

be starting soon, Engine 185 is running with older Pierce Saber and that leaves them with just 1 older Saber spare.

[Image7801]

[quote name='LFPDT75' timestamp='1352387823' post='502638']

can you please post any photos you have of phoenix sky harbor's past and current apparatus?

[/quote]



Check out Chuck Grow's site. His Phoenix FD pics related to PHX are [url="http://www.angelfire.com/planet/chucksfirepics4/PhoenixFire2.html"]here[/url].

[Image7801]

The *new* Engine 196 is about ready to go into service.



2007 ALF Eagle (Phoenix-spec) 1250/500/80a

x-Engine 191

   

[Image7801]

*new* Engine 196

   

[Guest]

sweet pics of 196 what's next a new L191 ?