Kansas

[southwheatland514]

Wichita Fire Department Engine 7

2013 Pierce Dash CF

1500/600

LOTS of problems with the new Pierces, from what I was told. They just ordered two new quints and a new tower and that will finish their contract with Pierce. I would not be surprised to see those be the last of the Pierces.

[southwheatland514]

This is the first new Pierce Saber in Kansas. I agree with Roto Ray, HFD Truck 1, Engine 3 have halogen Roto Rays and Engine 4 has a LED Roto Ray. Unsure why this machine does not have one. All other HFD Pierces have always had the signature ribbed stainless band. It needs it, but still a fantastic photo great job Andy!!!!

It is an awesome photo. But, I am surprised at the lack of a stripe on the front since NFPA requires it.

[Roto-Ray]

LOTS of problems with the new Pierces, from what I was told. They just ordered two new quints and a new tower and that will finish their contract with Pierce. I would not be surprised to see those be the last of the Pierces.

 

Do you know what aspect of the rigs have been giving them problems?  Pump, plumbing, electrical, chassis, etc?

[southwheatland514]

Mirrors falling off driving down the road, issues with the front bumper, Truck (Tower) 2 is in the shop for a good 4-6 weeks as the rear axle was not geared/programmed correctly and it burned up the rear axle....Intakes/discharges (that are all electronic/electric) just shutting down and quitting working during a working fire....  The guys were told "design what you want, but this is the chassis it is on and it is going to be a PUC".  The guys using the trucks do not like the PUC and, over half of the new engines are in the shops and almost all reserves are in service.  Both Engine 2, Engine 9, Engine 22, and Truck 2 were in reserves the day I rode.  Truck 2 is the new Tower.

 

I will add that this is not hearsay or rumor.  I rode early in the week of Christmas (before Thursday) and heard this first hand from a Captain and the crew of a certain station (squad/engine) that were credible.  There were other issues that the Captain (a friend of mine) mentioned, that I just can't remember.

 

And it is too bad, because looks-wise.....they look like awesome trucks.  I just didn't get a chance to look at any in person.

 

****DISCLAIMER......I may have forgotten or mis-worded some of what I have been typed...but what I have typed have come DIRECTLY from FRONT-LINE WICHITA FF'ers

[MFD76]

This is the first new Pierce Saber in Kansas. I agree with Roto Ray, HFD Truck 1, Engine 3 have halogen Roto Rays and Engine 4 has a LED Roto Ray. Unsure why this machine does not have one. All other HFD Pierces have always had the signature ribbed stainless band. It needs it, but still a fantastic photo great job Andy!!!!

It did have gold leaf HFD below the windshield and front reflective stripe when delivered to Conrad Fire Equipment in Olathe. Must have had some warranty issue between dealer delivery and final HFD delivery. I had stopped by and was visiting when it was inside the Shop at Conrad. 

 

Job 27206 

[bigjim]

The Wichita pumpers were specified as Dash CF's and PUC's to limit completion and keep the Pierce product.

[MFD76]

The Wichita pumpers were specified as Dash CF's and PUC's to limit completion and keep the pierce product.

Correct it was to keep a Pierce Product. The city wanted fire to try another manufacture. The fire department purchased a KME Tender for Water Tender 1 at No.17. There were a number of issues during and after delivery and with the dealer. So the fire department again asked for Pierce. When the original contract went for approval it was for Quantum-PUC's. As the Dash CF had not been released yet. At the time I was told the Quantum gauge cluster matched the older Dash's. Regardless this maneuver was to keep Pierce as the manufacture. Since other manufactures could not offer the folding steps and PUC option. When the build order was submitted they choose the newly released Dash CF and PUC. I have a large number of close friends that sat on the committee. They requested Arrow XT with a low hose bed standard pumper. They were told the RFP was for PUC on the Dash CF and no changes where allowed. They however did get to make the low hose bed and a number of other changes. 

[hp1530]

Correct it was to keep a Pierce Product. The city wanted fire to try another manufacture. The fire department purchased a KME Tender for Water Tender 1 at No.17. There were a number of issues during and after delivery and with the dealer. So the fire department again asked for Pierce. When the original contract went for approval it was for Quantum-PUC's. As the Dash CF had not been released yet. At the time I was told the Quantum gauge cluster matched the older Dash's. Regardless this maneuver was to keep Pierce as the manufacture. Since other manufactures could not offer the folding steps and PUC option. When the build order was submitted they choose the newly released Dash CF and PUC. I have a large number of close friends that sat on the committee. They requested Arrow XT with a low hose bed standard pumper. They were told the RFP was for PUC on the Dash CF and no changes where allowed. They however did get to make the low hose bed and a number of other changes. 

 

Kind of odd that KME wouldn't make it right with the volume of trucks they sell. Just curious, what issues did they have with the water tender and the dealer?

[iaff5045]

 

Kind of odd that KME wouldn't make it right with the volume of trucks they sell. Just curious, what issues did they have with the water tender and the dealer?

Doesn't surprise me with KME. I know many departments that were promised by KME that they could build the truck, and once the contract was signed, they would try to cut corners or explain that no we can't do that now so how we do this or we will just take money off. A department in N.J rejected their KME after it was built and delivered due to being overweight. And this was asked many times by the department to KME about the trucks weight, and they said no it will be fine.

[cml0774]

I dont think KME is going to build trucks wasting tons of money and future sales if they cant deliver the product promised. They would have a used car lot filled with rejected trucks; depts sign contracts for a reason.

[Roto-Ray]

I dont think KME is going to build trucks wasting tons of money and future sales if they cant deliver the product promised. They would have a used car lot filled with rejected trucks; depts sign contracts for a reason.

 

The issue that I've seen is the KME's quality control is all over the place.  Some rigs come near-perfect, and then there are situations as described in iaff5045's post above.

 

Another example:  A department that I'm familiar with went to do a final inspection and found that the rig was painted two different shades of the same color (the cab was one shade, the body another).  KME balked at repainting the cab, citing all of the equipment that would have to be removed, prep work, etc.  The department stood their ground and later got the tanker delivered correctly.

[southwheatland514]

Do you know what the tank size is on their KME tender?  Is it just water or does it carry any foam as well?

[Guest]

Need to ask Springfield, IL what they think of their new KME quints. Paint was peeling within a month of delivery, all have been either back to KME or dealer for repairs numerous times.

[MFD76]

Correct it was to keep a Pierce Product. The city wanted fire to try another manufacture. The fire department purchased a KME Tender for Water Tender 1 at No.17. There were a number of issues during and after delivery and with the dealer. So the fire department again asked for Pierce. When the original contract went for approval it was for Quantum-PUC's. As the Dash CF had not been released yet. At the time I was told the Quantum gauge cluster matched the older Dash's. Regardless this maneuver was to keep Pierce as the manufacture. Since other manufactures could not offer the folding steps and PUC option. When the build order was submitted they choose the newly released Dash CF and PUC. I have a large number of close friends that sat on the committee. They requested Arrow XT with a low hose bed standard pumper. They were told the RFP was for PUC on the Dash CF and no changes where allowed. They however did get to make the low hose bed and a number of other changes. 

 

I found out yesterday WFD has ordered two tandem axle 75ft Quints and one 100ft Ladder Tower. All Pierce Dash CF. This will finish the current RFP that previously included nine pumpers and one ladder tower. These will be the last two Quints WFD will order. They wanted two 105ft Ladders however the current RFP limits there ability to change what was approved. All future orders will be for pumpers and trucks with all Quints being phased out. Wichita prior to 1984 Quint and Squad invasion operated eight Truck Companies. During that period the Trucks or Aerials matched the fire house number. As with most fire departments many years ago apparatus including Trucks and Aerials were tradtionaly sequentially numbered. WFD returned to sequential numbering. 

 

These two new Quints will be called Ladders. This will distinguish them apart from the remaining Quints for two reasons. First they will be staffed with Truck Company quallified members that have completed the Truck Company Acadmey and have been approved. Second there primary focus will be Truck Company Operations with engine work being second. They are being placed in two outlaying areas of the city where truck company response times are long. I have been told Fire House 20 and 21. The current Quints primary function as Engine Companies. Wichita has already begun reducing the number of Quints by reactivating Engine 19 and Engine 15. Although Engine 15 was a swap between Engine 20 and Quint 15. Quint 20's current machine will become a spare and will not be reassigned. 

 

The new ladder tower will be assigned as Truck 1. The current Truck 1 will be reassigned to reactivated the long disbanded Truck 5. Truck 5 will be housed with Engine 10 at Fire House 10. This will give a much needed Truck to that area of the city. This will also provided on duty staffing of six to seven for Haz-Mat 10. Squad 10 will be removed from service. 

The squads for now will remain. The union does not want to loose the Lieutenant position if the squads are removed from service. I believe the squads will continue to disband as the fire department works in coming years toward reactivating Truck 6,7,8. However with the 2000's fire house relocation program some of the first due districts became very large. Since some fire houses were moved there are now some critical coverage gaps in the urban core of the city. So some squads will have to remain unless new fire houses are opened in these areas or double engine houses return.  

[Athomas5784]

Do you know what the tank size is on their KME tender?  Is it just water or does it carry any foam as well?

 

3000 gallons with a 1250 GPM pump.

[KENTucky]

Man, can any manufacturer delivery a decent rig anymore?  Lol.  Call me old fashioned, but the PUC design still hasn't set in with me yet.  Give me a traditional pump panel with manual controls (and the ability to go up to 2000-gpm) and a standard body with coffin compartments (if you want that extra space), especially in a busy urban department.  Curious to see how Baltimore City's hold up.   

 

Kent Parrish

Louisville, KY

[firescooby]

Need to ask Springfield, IL what they think of their new KME quints. Paint was peeling within a month of delivery, all have been either back to KME or dealer for repairs numerous times.

 

My department has 33 KME Predators (2006-2010). EVERY one of them had to be repainted to some degree...a few the entire truck...and at least 2 were repainted TWICE!!

[Athomas5784]

Quick Wichita Update: They moved Quint 13 to Firehouse 3 and reassigned it Quint 3, Moved Engine 3 to Firehouse 13 and reassigned it Engine 13. Also a year or two ago they did the same switch at Firehouse 15 and 20. I never had a photo of the relabbeled Engine 15 so here it is.

 

**We are awaiting the arrival of our new Pierce Dash CF Truck 1 and Wichita also has two Dash CF "Ladders" 75' Quints getting ready to hit the blue floor. If anyone is at Pierce in the next couple weeks I would love a photo to confirm where they are going to be located based on their lettering.

 



 



 

[Juice]

I really wish Wichita would have stayed with their old scheme, and a similar spec using the Arrow XT, I love those Dashes, there is no mistaking what/who they are.

 

Trav

[Athomas5784]

Stopped by Firehouse 17 today and shot a photo of what their new squads look like. They are taking the black/red color scheme to the Squad and Battalion Chief trucks as well.

 

Wichita Fire Department Squad 17

2015 Ford F-550 500/300