Philadelphia, PA

[gibersop]

I'm just wondering why the purchase of the Spartan rigs? Are they not having success with KME anymore? Happy New Year Everyone!


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[cml0774]

They only brought two; i know there trying some new stuff out with these engines.

[Frank B]

am told by many that the KME's are POS. The users and the buyers are different groups.

[cml0774]

The majority of the people who talk $hit have never worked on or stepped into a KME. Philly still has KMEs that are 20 years old still in front line service.

[Fassy]

I rode along with Engine 50 a few years ago. Their guys couldn't say enough about how much they liked their KME pumper. They did mention the two KME ladder-towers in the PFD left much to be desired.

[BFD190]

It's one thing when the folks who work on certain equipment have something negative to say about it. It's a damn near prerequisite in the fire service to be able to bitch and complain well, to an extent. Remarks made twenty and thirty years ago have a tendency to become gospel , retold and embellished along the way. What I do find quite strange is the buff that spews negative rhetoric about a company for many reasons.


The whole fdny thing for example . KME seems to be working out pretty well for them. Yet people still stick with the comments made before purchase and use and how they'll blow up the first time you place them in pump. Boston seems to like theirs, seek to be working great . I believe a company deserves the right to fix the problems of the past and become a better company. Some of today's buffs don't seem to want took at it this way.

[alex3610]

It's one thing when the folks who work on certain equipment have something negative to say about it. It's a damn near prerequisite in the fire service to be able to bitch and complain well, to an extent. Remarks made twenty and thirty years ago have a tendency to become gospel , retold and embellished along the way. What I do find quite strange is the buff that spews negative rhetoric about a company for many reasons.


The whole fdny thing for example . Kme seems to be working out pretty well for them. Yet people still stick with the comments made before purchase and use and how they'll blow up the first time you place them in pump. Boston seems to like theirs, seek to be working great . I believe a company deserves the right to fix the problems of the past and become a better company. Some of today's buffs don't seem to want took at it this way.

 

Likewise certain brands that once had great reputations are today building an inferior product, but continue to sell based on peoples assumptions that they are the same as what they were building 20 years ago.

[firescooby]

The majority of the people who talk $hit have never worked on or stepped into a KME. Philly still has KMEs that are 20 years old still in front line service.

Maybe, but we have 33 of them....and they are/were POS's!!

[Juice]

I've thought about this very situation before, while you won't often see me posting publicly on this topic, I will say this; I believe a lot of it has to do with the tradition of fire service. Look at how many departments/people refuse to, or stubbornly adapt to methods of the fire service as they evolve, because this is how it was when our Fathers and Grandfathers did it, the same can be applied to fire apparatus and manufacturers. While I personally don't like KME and Rosenbauer for the designs of their most current cab (the Keystone fascia and Commander, respectively) it has nothing to do with the working end of the truck, and only my likes/dislikes as a photographer (I also don't like the new Freightliner, but it too, has become popular.) I have heard many negative things about KME, Rosenbauer, Smeal, Ferrara, BUT I would never expect anyone else to conform to my way of thinking, because I don't expect everyone to appreciate Sutphen like I do, they've had their share of problems too.

 

Trav!

[Guest]

I hear that that too in Arizona,  but they are cheap  is why they bought them,  why are KME's, Smeal,  Rosenbauers etc... cost half

of what  a Pierce's, ERV/Spartan's, Sutphen's  ??  You get what you pay for  

[SOlsonBFDL14]

It's one thing when the folks who work on certain equipment have something negative to say about it. It's a damn near prerequisite in the fire service to be able to bitch and complain well, to an extent. Remarks made twenty and thirty years ago have a tendency to become gospel , retold and embellished along the way. What I do find quite strange is the buff that spews negative rhetoric about a company for many reasons.


The whole fdny thing for example . Kme seems to be working out pretty well for them. Yet people still stick with the comments made before purchase and use and how they'll blow up the first time you place them in pump. Boston seems to like theirs, seek to be working great . I believe a company deserves the right to fix the problems of the past and become a better company. Some of today's buffs don't seem to want took at it this way.

 

Yeah....about that.....we f'n hate them! The Department's looking to get rid of every single one of them. They spend 3x as long in the shop as they do in the field. On more than 1 occasion all 5 KME's assigned to D4 (E3, E7, E22, E33 & L17) were all OOS at the same time for an extended period. E41 just got theirs back at the end of last month after being gone for 3 months. We currently have 1 TL, 3 RM, 1 Rescue & 14 Pumps in frontline service with 1 Pump (E10) & 1 Rescue (R1) awaiting delivery & if we could figure out how to get rid of every single one of them without taking a bath, we would. We've already gone back to E\-One for our aerials (4 Metros on order), hopefully they'll get the rest of the future orders!

[FireMedic049]

 

Yeah....about that.....we f'n hate them! The Department's looking to get rid of every single one of them. They spend 3x as long in the shop as they do in the field. On more than 1 occasion all 5 KME's assigned to D4 (E3, E7, E22, E33 & L17) were all OOS at the same time for an extended period. E41 just got theirs back at the end of last month after being gone for 3 months. We currently have 1 TL, 3 RM, 1 Rescue & 14 Pumps in frontline service with 1 Pump (E10) & 1 Rescue (R1) awaiting delivery & if we could figure out how to get rid of every single one of them without taking a bath, we would. We've already gone back to E-One for our aerials (4 Metros on order), hopefully they'll get the rest of the future orders!

Just curious, are they all having the same problems or does it vary?  What sort of problems are you having?

 

It kind of seems like KME is either hit or a miss with each customer.  One department seems to love their units and keeps buying them and the next hates theirs.

 

My department would be in the hate category.  We're small and only have a pair of engines from them, but they're about 18 years old now and both have been junk.  Of course part of that is a byproduct of not having a good PM program or taking care of some issues as quickly as they should've been.  Most of the problems we've encountered with one, the other had too.

[Reliance]

Just curious, are they all having the same problems or does it vary?  What sort of problems are you having?

 

It kind of seems like KME is either hit or a miss with each customer.  One department seems to love their units and keeps buying them and the next hates theirs.

 

My department would be in the hate category.  We're small and only have a pair of engines from them, but they're about 18 years old now and both have been junk.  Of course part of that is a byproduct of not having a good PM program or taking care of some issues as quickly as they should've been.  Most of the problems we've encountered with one, the other had too.

Yes, and the nations capital in Ottawa, Ontario Canada has been getting them the last few years.

[gibersop]

First let me start with, I apologize for hijacking this thread away from photos. But reading all of these replies leads me to believe it's all a matter of opinion. Ford , Dodge, Chevy. I've had experience driving and maintaining Simon duplex-Salisbury, Pierce, and KME. The KME I drove had only one problem there was little to no PM completed for years! The Pierce I drove was new and had a ton of issues at the beginning of its service with warranty problems. And the worst was the Salisbury which was one of the last they built. I may not have a ton of experience but the county I am from is stuck of Pierce because of tradition and they all have their problems. I believe it has a ton to do with specs and adding way too much junk from the beginning! Show me a plain Jane engine with a cab pump and body with no multiplex system with problems and I'll be shocked!


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[BFD190]

^^ I totally agree with the responses. And skip, I'm really surprised to hear that. I had heard guys were happy with them, must have gone to shit after that . It really is mesmerizing the depth of love hate for any particular brand..


Personally, I purchased my first truck . I was never beholden to any one brand and could have easily went ford. And if you look at the lot at the station it's a mix of every brand. Guys usually stick with the same make over and over . We'll I absolutely love my gmc sierra and I believe I will stick with them.

[FireMedic049]

Show me a plain Jane engine with a cab pump and body with no multiplex system with problems and I'll be shocked!



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When would you like to stop by? I have two that you can look at.

[drfeelgood]

I have plenty of KME, Pierce, E\-One, and Spartan horror stories to tell at different degrees so not one fire truck MFG is perfect but some are a ton better than others. The best thing is spec a simple to operate, maintain, and durable rig that doesn't have OEM only components on the mechanical side of the rig (electrical systems, suspensions, window regulators etc.). If you can get 90% of the parts from a heavy truck pasts vendor vs. going to an unresponsive dealer with way over priced parts and incompetent parts changers you will be way a head of the game. Today I can say in my area I can only find 2 MFG's that meet those requirements.     

[firescooby]

I have plenty of KME, Pierce, E-One, and Spartan horror stories to tell at different degrees so not one fire truck MFG is perfect but some are a ton better than others. The best thing is spec a simple to operate, maintain, and durable rig that doesn't have OEM only components on the mechanical side of the rig (electrical systems, suspensions, window regulators etc.). If you can get 90% of the parts from a heavy truck pasts vendor vs. going to an unresponsive dealer with way over priced parts and incompetent parts changers you will be way a head of the game. Today I can say in my area I can only find 2 MFG's that meet those requirements.     

What two are those?

[gibersop]

When would you like to stop by? I have two that you can look at.

What department and apparatus?

[drfeelgood]

What two are those?

I take that back and say 3 MFGs. Now this is based off of the research my department did, the region we are in, the area we serve, our department's ability to maintain apparatus, dealer support in the region, and the understanding of all aspects of fire apparatus. It could be a books worth of info that is not needed in the Philly thread. Plus everyone else's opinions or lessons based on their experience. Again every MFG has made a lemon(s), not one is perfect, and pricing driving many decisions these days all factors in to what kind of rig you will end up with.