A very large factor of these units is standardization, which I am an advocate for. It is such a pain to be detailed to another company and have to spend a considerable amount of time learning their inventory, pump panel, etc... However, in this department where the geographical area is so diverse, I think we have standardized ourselves out of simplicity. We basically are going to have these HUGE units to carry everything we need, for everyone else's situation.
I like the color. I even like the deletion of the white over; not to mention they saved $5,000 per unit. I like the simple pump panel. As a truck driver, I am ecstatic they did away with front intakes. Maybe now I can get the truck to the front of the building. I believe in safety. I even like the chevrons. Although I can see the need for the RV ladder, again, did we put the cart before the horse? Did we build such a big unit that this is why it is required? I don't care how good the unit looks, I will lobby all day long for usability, low hose beds, easy access to tools, etc...
Being a business owner for almost 20 years now, and having a considerable amount of money wrapped up in equipment, this thought comes to mind. Realiable and accessible service, especially during the warranty phase, is absolutely critical. Who is the local area service center for the chassis manufacturer? Better yet, how about Elite? Is there one? Do we have to send these things ALL the way back to Wisconsin to get simple warranty work fixed on say, a door handle? If yes, then this unit is useless.
Again, I applaud our apparatus division. They have had the forsight to not only get a centralized appartus facility and trained service techs to do a lot of this work, but they have also put in the contract an allowance for things such as spare parts to basically build an entire unit; driveline, chassis', hell even a spare cab. But, we need service techs willing to come up to the times. I heard a rumor that the mechanics have complained enough to the point that the vehicles have rotors on the front and drums on the rear. They can't stand multi-plexing. What the hell, it's here to stay. Vehicles of today are run by computers. They need to get up with the times.
I guess time will tell, and again, I am optimistic. I don't care whose manufacturer's tag is on the unit. But as one of the rank in file, I do require, better yet I demand a piece of equipment that spends more time on the job than on a mechanic's rack.
Marshall
A large part of my collection was purchased from a GOOD man, John Floyd. I give him FULL credit on his work, although I may miss something. Thanks John. Also Scott Mattson, Warren Jenkins, Michael Schwartzberg, and Mike Sanders. Thanks Guys.
[quote name='Tillerman1664' post='131601' date='Jul 21 2007, 10:22 ']Both, the new system will use 7 in front of ALL numbering, 27 IS the Academy. If it were under the OLD numbering system, it would be E 271.[/quote]
Tillerman,
Is this part of the COG system? How will it accomodate if, say just for argument, a 2nd pumper ran out of the academy? Under the old way, it would've been E272. What will it be now?
Yes, the pumper will be E 727-A <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/machinegun.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/doh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_crazy.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/shrug.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />
A large part of my collection was purchased from a GOOD man, John Floyd. I give him FULL credit on his work, although I may miss something. Thanks John. Also Scott Mattson, Warren Jenkins, Michael Schwartzberg, and Mike Sanders. Thanks Guys.
Quick question (and I know the color of the apparatus doesn't put the fire out), are any of these new wagons going to be painted the station they are going to's colors? Or, are they all going to be this standard color?
Overall, they look like they will be ok, but after spending some time in Montgomery County you are VERY right in saying that these aren't user friendly in all areas of the county. Couldn't agree more that you guys need 2 types of Engines in the county.
I to have no desire to see any manufacturer of apparatus go out of business, but when someone posted about the E\-One Quest and "claimed that the Quest was the final nail in E\-One's coffin, and doing cart wheels over this so called possibility, I didn't see a response from you, or others, about the lost of jobs and grief that this would have caused. I did comment on this negativity, and judging from an e-mail I received, I was told I was wrong for defending E\-One. The writer claimed that although he wasn't a firefighter, but a buff, he knew all about fire trucks, and that only Pierce was worthy of being sold. Funny, I've been involve with fire trucks for 40 years, and I don't presume to know everything about them.
But let's get back to the issue of manufacturers going out of business. The price of apparatus is not going down, but up rapidly. As this happens they, the manufacturers look at ways to reduce their overhead. One of my concerns is NAFTA. American auto manufacturers as well as many others, have moved some of their component plants to both Canada and Mexico. It would not surprise me if one or more apparatus companies do the same. I would hate to eventually see a "Made in Mexico" label on some rigs, or a % of components made elsewhere and an " Assembled in America" label applied.. These big ticket rigs are also exported by several manufactures . Our export market is shrinking, and although these rigs don't add up to billions of dollars each year, they are USA products going abroad. I like the "Made in USA" label on things. When someone says that only Pierce, E\-One, or Seagrave should dominate the market, this stifles competition, product reliability, innovations, and causes a myriad of other problems. Competition is good. For each manufacturing job, there are 3-1/2 other jobs ranging from suppliers to local economy jobs that would suffer. Fortunately, the bulk of fire trucks are made in the USA.
As to the Elite rig for Montgomery County, I see several good things about it, IE: The ladder to the top of the hose bed, rather then the little hinged folding steps, the lower hose beds, the color keyed gauges, etc. The remark I made was satirical. You and I know fully well that no manufacturer offers a 30 day money back guarantee. As I stated previously, I hope that any design and/or spec problems are caught on the first few rigs made, and over this 24 month program corrected on the others.
Ron[/quote]
Ron-
I probably didn't answer to the slam on the Quest cab because I see so much negativty on Firehouse forums that I usually ignore much of it, as I try to do there. I didn't get to look at the Quest all that much in Indy, as I feel a little weird climbing in competitor's products wearing my logo shirts from the company I rep for. Obviously, there's a market for that style or look - Spartan's Evolution cab and the Quantum sell. I suspect the Quest and Impel/Velocity will sell plenty despite the fact that personally I don't like the looks of either. My opinion matters little to folks that buy these things except at my department, and I'm well aware of that.
If it were just you and me, we'd be talking shop about Elite. They're based in Wisconsin and the company I work for runs up against them alot since we have much of Wisconsin in our sales territory. It always amazes me how their engineering allows to them to put 300 gallons more water on the same tanker chassis everyone else says will be overweight, etc. I could go on and on, but I'm already being naughty saying what I've said. Let's just say I'm a much bigger fan of E\-One than Elite, and would hate to see E\-One go under.
I agree with about every post thus far, and I'll throw my 2 cents in regarding Elite. Most departments in my area require in the specs that the manufacturer be longstanding and reputable. This can be spelled out in general terms, or in the case of the specs I've been involved with, very strict. I'm sure most any manufacturer can build a single, well serving apparatus for Joe Department. But, when you start building 37 of the exact same rig for a large, well respected department, you better build the first one right, or you're in trouble. And, Montgomery County had better evaluate the devil out of the "prototype" and ensure the remainder of the order come with revisions and corrections. Or, they are stuck with 37 of the same problems.
Congrats on the new engines and try to remain optimistic!!! I have 2 questions, why did they spend the money on the 2 arrowsticks on the sides and not put one on the rear and do you have any shots of inside the cab?
07-21-2007, 08:17 PM (This post was last modified: 07-21-2007, 08:19 PM by Ladder 68.)
I know in my 2 departments to put them on the back is a waste as the rig(s) should always be angled across the roadway. This is to protect the personnel and citizens on scene by allowing protected working room on the side(s) of the involved vehicles, hence them on the sides. One on the rear would only be helpful if you parked in a row and didn't create additional protected areas.
[quote name='keepinitsafe' post='131719' date='Jul 21 2007, 16:59 ']Quick question (and I know the color of the apparatus doesn't put the fire out), are any of these new wagons going to be painted the station they are going to's colors? Or, are they all going to be this standard color?
Overall, they look like they will be ok, but after spending some time in Montgomery County you are VERY right in saying that these aren't user friendly in all areas of the county. Couldn't agree more that you guys need 2 types of Engines in the county.[/quote]
From what I have been told, ALL new county apparatus will be red.
A large part of my collection was purchased from a GOOD man, John Floyd. I give him FULL credit on his work, although I may miss something. Thanks John. Also Scott Mattson, Warren Jenkins, Michael Schwartzberg, and Mike Sanders. Thanks Guys.
[quote name='Ladder 68' post='131823' date='Jul 21 2007, 20:18 ']I know in my 2 departments to put them on the back is a waste as the rig(s) should always be angled across the roadway. This is to protect the personnel and citizens on scene by allowing protected working room on the side(s) of the involved vehicles, hence them on the sides. One on the rear would only be helpful if you parked in a row and didn't create additional protected areas.
Just some thoughts.[/quote]
That's why. Look back in the posts about our new SOP's
A large part of my collection was purchased from a GOOD man, John Floyd. I give him FULL credit on his work, although I may miss something. Thanks John. Also Scott Mattson, Warren Jenkins, Michael Schwartzberg, and Mike Sanders. Thanks Guys.
[quote name='LED138' post='131822' date='Jul 21 2007, 20:14 ']...do you have any shots of inside the cab?[/quote]
Not yet, I'm still working on that.
A large part of my collection was purchased from a GOOD man, John Floyd. I give him FULL credit on his work, although I may miss something. Thanks John. Also Scott Mattson, Warren Jenkins, Michael Schwartzberg, and Mike Sanders. Thanks Guys.
I thought that I'd drop in on the Elite topic since my department just bought one last year. The dealer that we used was great. We got an awesome custom HME/Rescue engine which will serve our small volunteer department very well for a lot of years to come. For the price we paid, we couldn't touch any of the other big three on a custom chassis.
I too read with interest the rumors of Elite going under due to money problems. Although everybody thinks of them as a "new" kid, most of the people there have been in the apparatus business for years with 3D and other area builders. The guy who was the electrician for our engine came from Seagrave and the head body builder was from Marion. which are both just down the road.
That being said, something must being going on up there though because we just got a letter form HME saying they weren't paid for the chassis and want to re-po the engine, even though we bought the chassis direct from HME and not through Elite.
Oh, and I think this truck looks awesome. They obviously put a lot of thought into the specifications. It also appears that these pictures were taken outside the new area of the Elite plant in Tileda Wisconsin.
Thanks, Kevin! Now on to the Mack fleet from Rockville VFD.
This was the 1st RS3 - a 1931 Mack chassis with unknown bodywork; I've heard that a chief officer at that time was largely responsible for construction.
The famous parade engine of RVFD - E-34, A 1963 MACK B 750/500,but back in the fall of 1966, it was just E-31 in a big fleet of Macks. The old Perry St. Sta.3 did not have much longer to be occupied in this Robert Washburn photo.
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