Boston Fire Department

[SOlsonBFDL14]

[quote name='yelrowekim' post='95358' date='Apr 7 2007, 15:30 ']Here is another shot of why the E One work well for Boston... L 26 "Stuffed" in a drive way.. between 2 "3 Deckas" the fire building was behind the "3 Decka" to the right and was also a "3 Decka"



[/quote]





That was the work of Firefighter, now Lieutenant, Steven Mitchell. He did a real nice job getting that one. The fire was on Friday 3 March 2006 at 1545hrs at 93A Hillside Street, on Mission Hill. It came in as a 2 & 1 response before going to 2 Alarms. It was 20F out with winds blowing from 20-40mph. A candle on the second floor ignited the unit & it then spread to the 3rd floor & through the roof.

[yelrowekim]

You can see Steve on the turn table and Charley in the lower right..... I got them both in the shot...what are the chances of that....

[SOlsonBFDL14]

[quote name='firepost' post='95351' date='Apr 7 2007, 15:15 ']I had read that story also, a few months ago on the website saying that Tower Ladder 2 and 17's rigs were going to be reassigned to Tower Ladders 3 and 10 as TL's 3 and 10's regular rigs are in bad shape if not out of service altogether.

It's a shame to hear that Boston's Tower Ladder fleet is being reduced by one half (from 4 to 2) as the two Midmounts were just added to the Fleet within the last few years. Having two Tower Ladders in service is at least better then having only one for the entire city like you had for over twenty years. Firepost <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tower.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> [/quote]





Commissioner Fraser stated that TL17's Pierce MidMount will be reassigned to TL3 as soon as a replacement truck can be found for 17. TL3's rig sustained close to $40,000 worth of damage in a collision with a Boston EMS Ambulance as they were leaving quarters. The cost, coupled with the age of the piece (1992) make it impractical to fix. The spare Tower, a 1985 model, blew it's engine from what I was told and will also not be repaired for the same reasons stated above. The rumor regarding TL2 is just that, a rumor, at least until a new truck is delivered to them or someone comes out and states it as fact. It IS true that we have put out for bid 2 ladder trucks, I've been told that they will be 110' E\-One Rearmounts and I've also been told that there is money set aside to purchase up to 5 more, something we SORELY need. I'm not going to argue the benefits of a Tower Ladder, but in many parts of the city they are impractical which is why we didn't have them for many years. The size, coupled with the tight narrow streets found in many of the city's neighborhoods makes them an unwise choice. There is a rumor that 2 of our downtown trucks will be reverting back to TDA's due to the tightness of their first alarm response area. Like everything else in the fire service, what works for one municipality, doesn't necessarily work for another. This is the case with Tower Ladders & Boston. One for each Division works just fine.

[firepost]

[quote name='edburke' post='23993' date='Aug 18 2006, 14:45 ']Actually, E\-One was put on the map by Chicago.



What is needed in Boston is a return to tillers. The E-Ones worked OK, but if you ask the old timers on Ladder 1, 24, 4, etc. that had tight fits, they could do much more with the tiller than they ever could with the rear mounts. Now that tillers are available from most manufacturers, they should be looking at them again. Including Pierce, as the biggest problem with the Pierce aerials in Boston, is that they are medium duty in a heavy duty city. If they tried the heavy duty aerials, you might see some opinions change. Please do not construe this to mean that I support the Pierce's in Boston, because I don't. I also don't condone the "well, it's worked for 20+ years, so why mess with it?" theory. A lot has changed in 20 years, and a lot of other options out there could work better. They need to form an objective committee to determine needs and then ****** every available option to choose the manufacturer that meets those needs best.[/quote]

Thanks for mentioning Chicago Ed.Of all of the E/One rigs that Chicago at one time once had we now have only 9, 2000 100 foot rear mount Aerial Ladders in front line service which happens to be the last Aerial Ladders that we purchased before going to Pierce Trucks.The last E/One Engines that we ordered were 1988 models which are now spare rigs.

I agree with what you said about Boston's apparatus needs which make alot of sense as opposed to the sniping that has been going on between the E/One and the Pierce proponents.Even though Chicago only has the 9 E/One Ladders in serivce we still have a fair amount of Spare E/One Ladders and Engines plus a 55 foot Snorkel/Squad but they are also being sold off as now our 1992/93 Spartan Luvernes have been replaced and have become Spare rigs.

[edburke]

There is also a big misconception of Boston, and the Metrofire district. Boston has 22 truck companies and after realignment, 2 of those will be towers, which is just under 10%. The area that Metrofire comprises is probably about the same size as the City of New York, if not a little smaller. If needed, Cambridge has a tower ladder and Brookline has a Bronto, both just feet from the Boston line. Newton, Somerville, Watertown and Medford also have towers that can be in the city within a few minutes , and Waltham and Lynn have towers that are all part of the mutual aid agreement. If needed for special call, there are at least 10 towers available (I'm sure I missed some), which gives a bit more flexibility to a chief officer on a scene, should the need arise for additional towers.



OK, here are the ones I missed: Burlington, Chelsea, Massport (actually in the city), Randolph and Wellesley. This makes a total of 15 front line towers, and I'm sure there are some spares (the Medford Aerialscope comes to mind)

[firepost]

[quote name='Skip Olson BFD L14' post='95409' date='Apr 7 2007, 17:31 ']Commissioner Fraser stated that TL17's Pierce MidMount will be reassigned to TL3 as soon as a replacement truck can be found for 17. TL3's rig sustained close to $40,000 worth of damage in a collision with a Boston EMS Ambulance as they were leaving quarters. The cost, coupled with the age of the piece (1992) make it impractical to fix. The spare Tower, a 1985 model, blew it's engine from what I was told and will also not be repaired for the same reasons stated above. The rumor regarding TL2 is just that, a rumor, at least until a new truck is delivered to them or someone comes out and states it as fact. It IS true that we have put out for bid 2 ladder trucks, I've been told that they will be 110' E\-One Rearmounts and I've also been told that there is money set aside to purchase up to 5 more, something we SORELY need. I'm not going to argue the benefits of a Tower Ladder, but in many parts of the city they are impractical which is why we didn't have them for many years. The size, coupled with the tight narrow streets found in many of the city's neighborhoods makes them an unwise choice. There is a rumor that 2 of our downtown trucks will be reverting back to TDA's due to the tightness of their first alarm response area. Like everything else in the fire service, what works for one municipality, doesn't necessarily work for another. This is the case with Tower Ladders & Boston. One for each Division works just fine.[/quote]

Thanks for the reply that's quite interesting to know as I know that Boston has a higher Ladder company to Engine company Ratio then most Fire Departments do so apparently Boston is a '"Truck Company" City. I personally am surprised that Boston hasn't gone back to ordering TDA's sooner because of the narrow streets in some of your areas.The majority of the Ladder company's in Philadephia,Baltimore and Washington D.C. are TDA's for that very reason as most of the older east coast city's have quite a few narrow streets.

It's quite surprising that the LA City Fire Department's entire Ladder company fleet is made up entirely of TDA's when you consider that most of the streets there are quite a bit wider then on the east coast so they really don't need to use TDA's like they do in some cities.

I read within the last two years that Boston lost the fifth man from their Ladder company's.When did that happen?

Chicago, where I'm from, is one of the few Lucky Cities that still run with 5 men on both Engine and Truck company's.

It did take a 3 week strike, however (in early 1980) to restore the fifth man on the 2/3's of our Engines and Trucks that had been running with less then 5 men for about a dozen years.

Firepost

[SOlsonBFDL14]

[quote name='firepost' post='95451' date='Apr 7 2007, 19:46 ']Thanks for the reply that's quite interesting to know as I know that Boston has a higher Ladder company to Engine company Ratio then most Fire Departments do so apparently Boston is a '"Truck Company" City. I personally am surprised that Boston hasn't gone back to ordering TDA's sooner because of the narrow streets in some of your areas.The majority of the Ladder company's in Philadephia,Baltimore and Washington D.C. are TDA's for that very reason as most of the older east coast city's have quite a few narrow streets.

I read within the last two years that Boston lost the fifth man from their Ladder company's.When did that happen?

Firepost [/quote]





We do have quite a few more trucks then most. We currently run 34 Engines and 22 Ladders out of 34 firehouses covering just over 43 square miles. We've been running 1 & 3 on the trucks since I was appointed in late 2002, so it's not a recent development. Our minimum staffinf is 1 & 3 on ALL companies; Engines, Ladders, Towers & Rescues. In December and January espsecially (no scheduled vacations) we sometimes run 1 & 4. I'd love to see more TDA's, but then you need 2 chauffeurs each shift which can be tough some shifts without overtime.

[yelrowekim]

Add Watertown & Newton to the tower list.....



Skip,

Why do you need to have 2 chauffeurs for a TDA ? The guy in the back is just there for the ride...

It is the best ride on the job though... If you have a good front man the tiller man does not have to do a lot....The first "truck" I drove when I got on the job was a 1970 Maxim 100' TDA... and it was because as soon as I walked in the door they had me up in the "Bucket" learning how to tiller.... I learned how to tiller before I drove... that way there you know what its like when the guy up front forgets there driving something as long as the JFK and takes a corner like there in a ford escort at 50... that way there you don't do something similar..

You guys only have certain people that drive...... we drive for a week at a time on this side of the "Neponset".... that way every body knows how to and where to go...so if someone is out it's not a problem....

[Guest]

[quote name='yelrowekim' post='95382' date='Apr 7 2007, 16:07 ']You can see Steve on the turn table and Charley in the lower right..... I got them both in the shot...what are the chances of that....[/quote]



I hope I post this correctly, I just signed up. Mike, as far as the picture of Ladder 26 on Hillside is concerned, unfortunatley this is NOT a picture of the "old man" (Charley) and myself (Steve). I never had a mask on (as the guy in the photo does) and by the time he (H-1) arrived on scene, I was well into roof ventilation ops. I believe that is either the chauffer of Ladder 15 or TL-10 on the turntable. I saw those guys later on in the fire (they helped bring my saw back down).

You can't tell from this photo, but the jacks on the left side of the picture are actually resting on the basement foundation wall (had to be over-ridden) to get the aerial in place. I have never prayed at a fire before. I don't know what types of apparatus manufacturers are the best, but E\-One definatley was a great truck as far as setting up and getting into tight places. If I had another manufacturer, I probably would have had to leave the truck in the street and scrambled to throw ground ladders.

[Guest]

Just a question



Through out this thread guys have talked about how big the Pierce TLs are and how they don’t fit down a lot of streets. To those who want Boston to go back to Tillers after looking through the Apparatus section The TDAs I saw were all Monsters especially the new ones. Most Boston stations were designed for Horses Correct? How would these new TDAs fit inside without extensive Overhaul of the stations? I site Revere Ladder-2 (a Pierce 2004 100Ft TDA I believe) as an example. That truck is so big it cannot fit into Lynn’s Western Ave Station on Mutual Aide. That Station was built in the mid 60’s. They Wind up sitting on the ramp when they cover. imagine what it would be like in Boston where stations are even older. And Fire Trucks keep on getting bigger.



Just my observation as a Buff

P.S. Pro Tillah all the Way <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/BananaMan.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[Guest]

Does anyone have any shots of the new Engine 52? I just saw it on the E\-One site, looks nice, but the pic is too dark and not the best of quality.

[Guest]

[quote name='SLCPDEXPLORER' post='95674' date='Apr 8 2007, 13:42 ']Does anyone have any shots of the new Engine 52? I just saw it on the E\-One site, looks nice, but the pic is too dark and not the best of quality.[/quote]



I haven't seen any posted here yet, but [url="http://www.massfiretrucks.com/"]http://www.massfiretrucks.com/[/url] has a good shot of it.

[Guest]

[quote name='wagon70' post='95660' date='Apr 8 2007, 13:25 ']Just a question



Through out this thread guys have talked about how big the Pierce TLs are and how they don’t fit down a lot of streets. To those who want Boston to go back to Tillers after looking through the Apparatus section The TDAs I saw were all Monsters especially the new ones. Most Boston stations were designed for Horses Correct? How would these new TDAs fit inside without extensive Overhaul of the stations? I site Revere Ladder-2 (a Pierce 2004 100Ft TDA I believe) as an example. That truck is so big it cannot fit into Lynn’s Western Ave Station on Mutual Aide. That Station was built in the mid 60’s. They Wind up sitting on the ramp when they cover. imagine what it would be like in Boston where stations are even older. And Fire Trucks keep on getting bigger.



Just my observation as a Buff

P.S. Pro Tillah all the Way <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/BananaMan.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />[/quote]

Both stations 4 and 8 had tillers in them before so they should fit. I was in front of station 8 last Saturday when L-1 was useing a spare and one of the jake's had to get off of the truck and had to physically move a tree so the ladder itself did'nt hit it to go on a run.

[Guest]

The new Car 3

[Guest]

This may seem like an unanswerable question at this point since the city is investigating going to TDA's and nothing much has been coming out of it yet, but it there any word on what manufacturer they are leaning towards if they went with TDA's? There are a couple MA with Seagrave tillers on order at this time (Somerville and Malden).

[Guest]

My guess would be E one since tyhey are happy with em for engines nad rear mounts but who knows with purchasing.

[yelrowekim]

Somerville & Melrose..... not Malden

[Guest]

Sorry...got the two departments mixed up.

[Reliance]

[quote name='SLCPDEXPLORER' post='95674' date='Apr 8 2007, 14:42 ']Does anyone have any shots of the new Engine 52? I just saw it on the E\-One site, looks nice, but the pic is too dark and not the best of quality.[/quote]



Also John Galla [url="http://www.firenews.org/"]http://www.firenews.org/[/url] weekly phots has a good shot <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/drredengine.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[SOlsonBFDL14]

[quote name='SLCPDEXPLORER' post='95674' date='Apr 8 2007, 13:42 ']Does anyone have any shots of the new Engine 52? I just saw it on the E\-One site, looks nice, but the pic is too dark and not the best of quality.[/quote]



Here it is, but there's a bigger story! Word came down today of a BIG change in plans. Whether or not it's true is another story, but here it is. I was working overtime on Ladder 11 this morning. Word filtered down to the house, and confirmed by the District Chief, that the new E\-One is now going to Engine 29 after all. Apparently the crew from Engine 52 was scheduled for training on it this week, with it being put into service on Saturday. On either Tuesday or Wednesday the entire crew called in sick for the day tour. Commissioner Fraser was said to be so incensed that he immediately decided to take it away from them and give it to Engine 29. More on this story as I learn it. If it is true, it's TREMENDOUS news as the guys up there REALLY deserve a new piece for once. Photo credit to MEB and FireNews.org!