[quote name='tomquimby' post='240959' date='Aug 24 2008, 10:17 ']where is this photo from? front and hunting park?[/quote]
The photo was taken out back in the PFD shop yards. Here's another shot that I took at the same time. You could see some exterior rusting on these rigs, although these photos make them look much better than they actually appeared in person at the time. While there was rusting visible on the outside of these rigs, I was told by one of the shop guys that the cabinets were literally falling off the frame on these Wards. Anybody know what ever happened to them?
[quote name='Roto-Ray' post='240783' date='Aug 23 2008, 20:26 ']Completely off-topic: I just noticed this user's screen name. <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dry.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='<_<' />[/quote]
A twin you haven't told us about Taylor? <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':o' />
08-25-2008, 10:52 AM (This post was last modified: 08-25-2008, 11:01 AM by Frank B.)
Ward LaFrance was from Elmira Heights not Elmira, and is not the same company as American LaFrance.
I never heard the story about the flood,
I was always told the rust problem was caused when WLF purchased steel from another "forign" source other than the normal supplyer. This was because the normal supply was unavailable, because of a strike at USS steel. The forign steel was not of the same quality.
This is a total shame, because WLF was one of the better builders of fire apparatus and introduced many innovations to the fire apparatus industrie.
I'll have to agree with Frank on this one, the Elmira flood happened in June, 1972. Most of the Philly rigs had already been delivered. Elmira Heights is located north of Elmira and farther away from the Chemung River. WLF began having issues with rust due to the use of an inferior grade of steel around 1970. Many WLF apparatus built during this period had rust problems.
Its sad to say my companies 1975 Mack CF600 suffered the same problem. The tried 2 time to have the body rebuilt but the cancer(rust) just kept spreading.
[quote name='Roto-Ray' post='240783' date='Aug 23 2008, 20:26 ']Completely off-topic: I just noticed this user's screen name. <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dry.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='<_<' />[/quote]
Ummm makes you wonder Looks like there shouldn't two names that are very close as this one is. Could cause some troube.
Hey, most apparatus that were built in 1971 - 1975 had severe rust problems due to the metal, paint primer and top coat paint. We suffered right along with every one else.
John Hinant Retired Member of Richmond VA Fire Bureau
October 25, 1858 - October 25, 2020 = 162 years old The sixth oldest paid, documented, Fire Department in the United States First established in 1782
"In God We Trust - All Others We Take For Granted"
08-25-2008, 05:29 PM (This post was last modified: 08-25-2008, 05:30 PM by Frank B.)
[quote name='Truckman' post='241250' date='Aug 25 2008, 14:58 ']Ummm makes you wonder Looks like there shouldn't two names that are very close as this one is. Could cause some troube.
Hey, most apparatus that were built in 1971 - 1975 had severe rust problems due to the metal, paint primer and top coat paint. We suffered right along with every one else.[/quote]
[color="#8B0000"] You are correct, many other vehicles were affected, some more than others. The WLF trucks were a worst case, they may have ommitted some steel curing or treatment step. Also commercial vehicles and some cars and trucks were having major rust problems during this time.[/color]
[quote name='tomquimby' post='243617' date='Sep 2 2008, 14:30 ']hey JMPRECISION,i got this off 57's web site--is the american lafrance or the squrt the 9's had in the 90's?[/quote]
[quote name='tomquimby' post='243617' date='Sep 2 2008, 14:30 ']hey JMPRECISION,i got this off 57's web site--is the american lafrance or the squrt the 9's had in the 90's?[/quote]
THERE WAS ONLY ONE 79 ALF SQURT. IT ORIGANALLY SEREVED 43'S AND THEN 9'S. 57'S FIRST SQURT I BELIEVE WAS AN 87 Seagrave THEY RECIEVED WHEN SQURT 65 WAS DISBANDED IN 88. THE PHOTO OF 57'S ALF YOU POSTED WAS A STANDARD ENGINE.
[quote name='tomquimby' post='240698' date='Aug 23 2008, 08:15 ']was squrt 8 the only company to use this? i remember the '71 Pierce that 38's had was around for years and the ward lafrance disappaeared[/quote]
YES, 8'S WAS THE ONLY COMPANY TO USE THE WARD. THE Pierce 38'S HAD ALSO SERVED 43'S ORIGANALLY.
[quote name='JMPRECISION' post='243651' date='Sep 2 2008, 17:42 ']THERE WAS ONLY ONE 79 ALF SQURT. IT ORIGANALLY SEREVED 43'S AND THEN 9'S. 57'S FIRST SQURT I BELIEVE WAS AN 87 Seagrave THEY RECIEVED WHEN SQURT 65 WAS DISBANDED IN 88. THE PHOTO OF 57'S ALF YOU POSTED WAS A STANDARD ENGINE.[/quote]
[quote name='Fireman5230' post='243829' date='Sep 3 2008, 10:25 ']Is the KME Quint (FOXTROT 10) back in service? I know KME was repairing it... is it back at PIA?[/quote]
[quote name='Truckman' post='241250' date='Aug 25 2008, 10:58 ']Ummm makes you wonder Looks like there shouldn't two names that are very close as this one is. Could cause some troube.
Hey, most apparatus that were built in 1971 - 1975 had severe rust problems due to the metal, paint primer and top coat paint. We suffered right along with every one else.[/quote]
First off, after the corporate mergers that created American LaFrance, a nephew of Asa and Truckson LaFrance, Ward, started building "assembled", ie built with vendor components, commercial trucks. Fire Apparatus didn't begin until the 1930's, and Ward LaFrance built commercial trucks into the 1940's.
Second, a major USA steelworkers strike in apx. 1970 drove many steel users to seek imported steel from Europe. This steel was different in composition, and did not take primer and paint as well as US made steel, resulting in water/road grime and salt getting to the metal and causing the rusted out rigs of the 1970's (DCFD also had the same problems with WLF/Ford C pumpers, and had them re-bodied by Young in 1979-80).
Third, 1972's Hurricane Agnes caused serious damage to the American LaFrance plant in Elmira, NY, not the Ward LaFrance plant in Elmira Heights, NY.
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