Pittsburgh Bureau of Fire

[Guest]

60 Stations! Wow I never realized Pittsburgh was that big.



Couple of questions:

Brockway was this a local builder? Or was this the chassis?



Why the commercial chassis? Money, size?

Some one mentioned man power squads, did the crew follow the engine?

Kind of a unique set up for a big city.

[Guest]

Yeah the city was loaded. Tons of cuts in the 80s and 90s reduced to what we now have 29 comanys.





As far as the dove tail question, The R model macks also had guys riding the tail. Infact an incident where a FF fell off the back and was injured started the push to end it. Also that push is why you see the "telephone booths" on the back parts of the brockways. The trucks that were able to be outfitted were and the ones that wernt (macks) were put into reserve status.

[Ladder 68]

On the "Keystone Relics" page there is a photo of what looks like an ALF 900 snorkel. What are the specifics on this rig and what was its designation?



Thanks in advance.

[OPEN CAB MACK]

[quote name='Shoop' post='269545' date='Dec 30 2008, 13:46 ']Open Cab Mack,



I have slides of two 70's ALF engines. The one I posted, and the other assigned to Engine 1. Was there 1 or 2 of these purchased?



Which tiller did Monesson get. I posted Mike Martinelli's link below. If you look at the picture you can tell that Monesson got old Truck 12. Monesson also has a boat tender though which is an old Seagrave tractor. It is from the old Truck 14.



[url="http://fdnytrucks.com/files/html/otherstates/Western%20Pennsylvania/Monessen.htm"]http://fdnytrucks.com/files/html/otherstat...ia/Monessen.htm[/url][/quote]

Shoop, there was 1 purchased. It was the one you posted. Apparently when the bureau purchased the next round of rigs in 1981, which would have been the big Ford Louisvilles, the on assigned to Engine 1 replaced this LaFrance. It must then of went to 14 Engine. Mgk 110 talks to a retired driver from 14 Engine and he would be able to tell you. I haven't talked to Sparky in a while.

As for the Monesson tiler, I was told they only bought 1 and that it was from 14. They purchased another one from up in Mass. The old Pgh tiller tractor is now used to pull the boat. Monesson keeps their old apparatus, dont ask where but they have quite a few.

[OPEN CAB MACK]

[quote name='Shoop' post='269547' date='Dec 30 2008, 13:59 ']



Here is a picture of the boat tender that was taken by my dad last year.[/quote]

Shoop, from what I was told, this is supposed to be old 14 Truck.

[OPEN CAB MACK]

[quote name='mgk110' post='269555' date='Dec 30 2008, 14:54 ']Patrick,



I retired FF from E14 told me that the ALF at 14 was reassigned from Co. 1. The story goes that the ALF was purchased for the city by US Steel when the USS office building was under construction downtown. It was built for an FD in Texas that ran into money problems and could not take delivery. It was replaced at 1 by a Ford/Grumman in the early 80's and reassigned to 14. It was then replaced by one of the first Pierce Dashes the city bought.[/quote]

The LaFrance was bought following the Beacon Warehouse Fire. They lost an engine in that fire. This LaFrance replaced it and it went to Engine 1 where it was in service until 1981.

[OPEN CAB MACK]

[quote name='Shoop' post='269548' date='Dec 30 2008, 14:01 ']A question though. We know where both of the Seagrave tillers they had went. Where did the 1978 Seagrave 100' Rearmount that was assigned to Truck 34 end up?[/quote]

The ladder at 34 became 18 after the bureau reorganized and renumbered. Also, 14 truck came in with the Omaha Orange color. Maybe the info about this rig an Monesson was given to me wrong. Mike, talk to Sparky and ask him.

[OPEN CAB MACK]

[quote name='Shoop' post='269568' date='Dec 30 2008, 15:55 ']Here ya go Mike! I just noticed this. Not all of the Mack engines had the same size pumps. I have numerous slides of the macks, and quite a few have the smaller 1000 gpm pumps. Can anymore verify this for sure?







Engine 22

1974 Mack 1000/500

John Schmidt Photo







Engine 30

1972 Mack 1250/500

Tom Bair Photo

Originally assigned to E29







Engine 32

1973 Mack 1250/500

Tom Bair Photo







Engine 51

1972 Mack 1000/500

Tom Bair Photo[/quote]

Shoop, between 1972 and 1973, the bureau purchased 13 R-Model Macks. They had 1,250 gpm Waterous pumps and 500 gwt. They were originally all red and were assigned to Engines 4, 5, 8, 21, 22, 26, 29, 30, 32, 43, 51, 57, and 58.

[OPEN CAB MACK]

[quote name='ATFagent' post='269569' date='Dec 30 2008, 16:02 ']Gentlemen,



Let's not forget the Ford/Grumman purchases. Here is 23 Engine in 1982 near Mt. Oliver. I know 38 Engine had one also.[/quote]

The Ford/Grummans were purchased in 1981 with 3 of the larger ones assigned to Engines 1, 2, & 3. These had the 1,500 gpm pumps and 500 gwt. The other smaller wheelbased engines were bought in 1982, also by Grumman. These had 1,000 gpm pumps and 300 gwt. These also had a front suction on them and were assigned to engines 18, 20, 23, 24, 27, 28, 29, 38, & 39.

[OPEN CAB MACK]

[quote name='mgk110' post='269571' date='Dec 30 2008, 16:28 ']Is it the 25th again. <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/BananaMan.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> Thanks Patrick. I can't answer the question on the pump sizes. Maybe open cab mack can or I can ask Sparky when I talk to him next.



I do remember talk about CF's in the city. But I think the order that was cancelled were either on Ford or International chassis. Sparky mentioned the CF's before but that was a long time ago and I would have to ask him again. On my list of things to do is a Code 3 CF in yellow and black.



When you get a chance could you please post the Brockways again?[/quote]

As for the CF's, the chief at that time, Tom Kennelly was not a fan of the Mack CF. He served as chief from 1971-1980. He went to Quail Fire Dept. in Ross Twp. and looked at theirs and felt the cabs were too big and wasn't a big fan of it. That is why the "R" was bought.

[OPEN CAB MACK]

[quote name='bandit' post='269580' date='Dec 30 2008, 16:49 ']Looking at all these apparatus, does or did PBF staff their engines with 2 people?[/quote]

Staffed with 4. Two in the cab and two on the tailboard. In 1984 I believe, a firefighter was killed when he slipped as an engine was backing to hit a hydrant. This raised a serious concern and when John Leahy became chief in 1985 the bureau began to spec a rig where all firefighters were seated in a belted position. In 1986 the bureau bought 13 Pierce Dash engines.

[OPEN CAB MACK]

[quote name='mgk110' post='269583' date='Dec 30 2008, 16:58 ']No. Trucks and engines have four. The quints are supposed to have five.



Back when the city had the manpower squads the engines and trucks had three. I think it went to four in the late 80's or early 90's when the squads were disbanded.[/quote]

Before June of 1992, the bureau had 4 on an engine, a captain and 3 firefighters, 2 on a truck, a lieutenant and a firefighter and 4 in a squad. The squads at that time were at 11, 12, 24, 28, and 33. A first alarm anywhere in the city except the "Golden Triangle" and Oakland was 3 engines, 2 trucks a squad and a battalion chief. In the Golden Triangle and Oakland 4 engines, 2 trucks, 1 squad, 1 battalion chief, and the deputy chief responded. After yet another reorganization, the squads were eliminated, Engines 1, 14, and 33 eliminated. Trucks 1, 5, 7, 15, 18, 23, 27, 35, and 39. The quints went in service at 18, 23, and 27. The engines have 4, the trucks 4 and quints 4.

[OPEN CAB MACK]

[quote name='Ladder 68' post='269609' date='Dec 30 2008, 19:26 ']Great, great photos of how PBF once was before the bean counters entered the picture. Couple of questions:



Was there ever 52 Engine Co.'s in the PBF? I ask because of the company designations or was that a reserve designation?



And was or is there a difference between "Engine" and "Pumper"? Maybe a 2 piece Engine Co.?



Thanks in advance.[/quote]

Yes there was a 52. It was located in the Upper North Side in old Allegheny City. It was originally known as Hose Co. No. 12 in Allegheny City, before Pittsburgh annexed Allegheny. The truck located in this station was also known as Truck "D". This station was located at Shadeland Ave. & Dickson St.

[OPEN CAB MACK]

[quote name='Shoop' post='269610' date='Dec 30 2008, 19:26 ']Open Cab Mack,



Do you know what rig was lost at the Beacon Warehouse Fire? Also, can you post your pictures of the engines, and tiller in operation.



Thanks[/quote]

Not quite sure which engine was lost. If I can get my scanner going I will try. I may need to ask you for some assistance.

[OPEN CAB MACK]

[quote name='Shoop' post='269612' date='Dec 30 2008, 19:36 ']Ladder 68,



At one time there were a total of around 60 firehouses in the City. I don't think that the City ever had a Engine & Pumper station, but I do know that some stations had reserve engines as well as their front lines.[/quote]

Engines only. And yes, many houses have reserve pieces. The city is constantly changing rigs for maintainence on a daily basis.

[OPEN CAB MACK]

[quote name='Rpaterson33' post='269737' date='Dec 30 2008, 23:35 ']Yeah the city was loaded. Tons of cuts in the 80s and 90s reduced to what we now have 29 comanys.





As far as the dove tail question, The R model macks also had guys riding the tail. Infact an incident where a FF fell off the back and was injured started the push to end it. Also that push is why you see the "telephone booths" on the back parts of the brockways. The trucks that were able to be outfitted were and the ones that wernt (macks) were put into reserve status.[/quote]

The city had over 1,200 firefighters back in the early 80's. In fact at old Engine-Truck 1 downtown there was Engine 2 and 30 running out of the rear of the house. Unbelievable, 3 engines and a truck in a house. And now not an engine or truck in the downtown district.

[Guest]

Open Cab Mack,



If you need any help let me know. I'm glad to see this topic going as good as it is.

[John Kenealy]

[quote name='ppfd' post='269729' date='Dec 30 2008, 23:27 ']Couple of questions:

Brockway was this a local builder? Or was this the chassis?[/quote]



Brockway was a builder of trucks located in Cortland NY, just south of Syracuse. There are still a bunch of Brockway fire trucks in the Central NY region, most are now in service as parade rigs.



Here's a link to the Brockway Museum's website, unfortunately most of the pages there seem to be OOS, but the history is pretty detailed.



[url="http://www.brockwaytrucks.org/museum/history.html"]http://www.brockwaytrucks.org/museum/history.html[/url]

[OPEN CAB MACK]

[quote name='Shoop' post='269813' date='Dec 31 2008, 07:33 ']Open Cab Mack,



If you need any help let me know. I'm glad to see this topic going as good as it is.[/quote]

I will try maybe tonite or tomorrow. I have 3 - 4 fires with a variety of apparatus. I may need to call you and you walk me through it.

[Ladder 68]

To Open Cab Mack, mgk110, Shoop Rpaterson33 and everyone else who has provided photos and info about the PBF I want to say thank you. The PBF is one of the departments that as never had any real national attention or exposure and this thread has been a huge source of information and history for me.



Again thanks to everyone for contributing to this thread, which in my humble opinion, is one of the best ever on Firepics.net.



Have a safe and Happy New Year.