Fairfax County VA

[SrFireOfficial]

I want to say the third is going to go to 25 but let me ask those more in the know.

[drfeelgood]

This kind of bothers me "These units will also host a new paint and graphics configuration for the County."

[SrFireOfficial]

I want to say the third is going to go to 25 but let me ask those more in the know.

This kind of bothers me "These units will also host a new paint and graphics configuration for the County."

Yes, third tiller to FS25 in Reston. County Executive is saying no more tillers unless these rigs prove themselves more advantageous than the current Pierce 105' rear mounts. Rumors of paint and graphics change are all an immense of speculation, nobody will confirm, deny or make counter accusations.

[Engine504Driver]

I would think that along with the purchase of the Tillers brings added expense of training Tiller drivers, yes/no?

[SrFireOfficial]

Yes, third tiller to FS25 in Reston. County Executive is saying no more tillers unless these rigs prove themselves more advantageous than the current Pierce 105' rear mounts. Rumors of paint and graphics change are all an immense of speculation, nobody will confirm, deny or make counter accusations.

I would think that along with the purchase of the Tillers brings added expense of training Tiller drivers, yes/no?

I have several on-going rantings about brand new tillers versus rear mount aerial ladders which can be read in this or the PWC thread. In summary, today's tiller ladder trucks, aka TDAs; are behemoths compared to their predecessors; what is gained in maneuverability is lost in the overall size of the rig. I truly believe that cities like Baltimore and Washington DC benefit from TDA's where negotiating smaller side streets and accessing alleys is the necessary norm for effective ladder company coverage. Aside from very narrow streets within planned mult-family habitational unit communities (i.e. townhouse/apartment complexes, I fail to see a compelling reason for spending taxpayer money on three TDA's when the same money would purchase four rear mount aerial ladder trucks (not platforms). This issue can be addressed when developers submit their plans for review and by having crews do driver training in the evenings when these parking areas tend to be fuller. As stated elsewhere, under equal conditions, I will put our best RM drivers in one of the FRD's existing Pierce RM's against a crew of equal ability in one of the new TDA's at any spot in the county and see who gets the best tactical position the fastest.

Oh by the way, latest intel confirms the cabs will be red-roofed (foam trucks? ha ha ha), white from from roofline down to the bottom of the window line and red below.

[drfeelgood]

I have several on-going rantings about brand new tillers versus rear mount aerial ladders which can be read in this or the PWC thread. In summary, today's tiller ladder trucks, aka TDAs; are behemoths compared to their predecessors; what is gained in maneuverability is lost in the overall size of the rig. I truly believe that cities like Baltimore and Washington DC benefit from TDA's where negotiating smaller side streets and accessing alleys is the necessary norm for effective ladder company coverage. Aside from very narrow streets within planned mult-family habitational unit communities (i.e. townhouse/apartment complexes, I fail to see a compelling reason for spending taxpayer money on three TDA's when the same money would purchase four rear mount aerial ladder trucks (not platforms). This issue can be addressed when developers submit their plans for review and by having crews do driver training in the evenings when these parking areas tend to be fuller. As stated elsewhere, under equal conditions, I will put our best RM drivers in one of the FRD's existing Pierce RM's against a crew of equal ability in one of the new TDA's at any spot in the county and see who gets the best tactical position the fastest.


Oh by the way, latest intel confirms the cabs will be red-roofed (foam trucks? ha ha ha), white from from roofline down to the bottom of the window line and red below.

Good points but a few corrections...

 

The length of a TDA is driven by the customer not all of them are 62' long. Silly that many think that a TDA will carry more equipment but forget how much added weight that brings. Some want TDA's for the amount of ground ladders it can carry which is wise when it's staffed with just 3 or 4. From what I here they could actually buy 5 rear mounts for the cost of these 3 TDA's but that's what you get when you only shop "The only game in town".

 

Bottom line no matter the pro's or con's TDA's are cool and hey look it has a rotoray!!!!

[alex3610]

I have several on-going rantings about brand new tillers versus rear mount aerial ladders which can be read in this or the PWC thread. In summary, today's tiller ladder trucks, aka TDAs; are behemoths compared to their predecessors; what is gained in maneuverability is lost in the overall size of the rig. I truly believe that cities like Baltimore and Washington DC benefit from TDA's where negotiating smaller side streets and accessing alleys is the necessary norm for effective ladder company coverage. Aside from very narrow streets within planned mult-family habitational unit communities (i.e. townhouse/apartment complexes, I fail to see a compelling reason for spending taxpayer money on three TDA's when the same money would purchase four rear mount aerial ladder trucks (not platforms). This issue can be addressed when developers submit their plans for review and by having crews do driver training in the evenings when these parking areas tend to be fuller. As stated elsewhere, under equal conditions, I will put our best RM drivers in one of the FRD's existing Pierce RM's against a crew of equal ability in one of the new TDA's at any spot in the county and see who gets the best tactical position the fastest.


Oh by the way, latest intel confirms the cabs will be red-roofed (foam trucks? ha ha ha), white from from roofline down to the bottom of the window line and red below.

I'm not sure how familiar you are with Fairfax County, but you mention the townhouse/apartment complexes as having narrow streets and you speak of them as being sort of the exception there.  By my eyes, these sort of places are in the hundreds if not thousands in Fairfax County.  They are literally everywhere.  The extreme levels of congestion everywhere there make maneuverability an issue on the arterial streets as well.  I don't think the TDA's are inappropriate at all.  Are they expensive?  Absolutely.  But as Dr. Feelgood alluded to, their purchasing process doesn't appear to be the most "competitive" in the world, so if money really were an issue there are plenty of ways to make these more reasonable from a cost perspective.  For anyone that is interested, here is a neat video of a TDA in Seattle, WA (tandem axle tractor no less) navigating the "chicane streets" in Seattle.  Their drivers will tell you that their straight body trucks will NOT make it down these streets.    http://youtu.be/QXcqFtPNLn8

[SrFireOfficial]

Good points but a few corrections...
 
The length of a TDA is driven by the customer not all of them are 62' long. Silly that many think that a TDA will carry more equipment but forget how much added weight that brings. Some want TDA's for the amount of ground ladders it can carry which is wise when it's staffed with just 3 or 4. From what I here they could actually buy 5 rear mounts for the cost of these 3 TDA's but that's what you get when you only shop "The only game in town".
 
Bottom line no matter the pro's or con's TDA's are cool and hey look it has a rotoray!!!!

I agree, the size of the vehicle is dictated by the customer but Mother Fairfax has always been a believer in "bigger is better."

And if memory serves me correctly, it's the only game in town because of the county's (read DVS) policy that the manufacturer must have a dealer within 25 miles of Fairfax County.

[drfeelgood]

I agree, the size of the vehicle is dictated by the customer but Mother Fairfax has always been a believer in "bigger is better."


And if memory serves me correctly, it's the only game in town because of the county's (read DVS) policy that the manufacturer must have a dealer within 25 miles of Fairfax County.

There is 2 other dealers that meet requirement.

[Engine504Driver]

I got some information today that says a 4th tiller will be purchased, which after receiving it, would give Fairfax 4 Tillers, 4 Towers, and 4 RM Trucks

[drfeelgood]

I got some information today that says a 4th tiller will be purchased, which after receiving it, would give Fairfax 4 Tillers, 4 Towers, and 4 RM Trucks

So switching out 2-3 Towers (Depends on what can fit in 8) for a TDA or RM??

[Engine504Driver]

my source couldn't remember the location of the 4th Tiller, possibly 8 or 30......and the 4 tillers, 4 towers and 4 RM trucks did "not" include the volunteer-owned T422 and TL405 obviously...will check again and get some clarification

[SrFireOfficial]

Look what I found on the interweb......it appears there are some change orders already approved from what I've reported elsewhere.

[Brummel]

What is the wheel base of the tractor?

[chief60]

The wheelbase is showing 167".

[SrFireOfficial]

First peek at some new pumpers via the Pierce site. Engines 408 (Annandale), 434 (Oakton), 431 (Fox Mill)and Fire Academy. Note: For the first time (in my memory) there will be a county-owned rig running front line from Fire Station 8. Save your breath: don't even start on the Roto-Rays.

[lawrencewhite111]

So I see on the facebook page for Pierce that one of the New  2014 Pierce   Velocity   Pumpers is going to Engine 408 . I also see a pumper for 434 . Anyone in the know of why 408 is replacing their pumper? I also thought they were getting a Rearmount Tower to replace the Midmount as I was told a few days ago . Would love a update status of which rigs are actually getting replaced .

[SrFireOfficial]

To the best of my knowledge, the new RM tower will not fit into FS08, it is too tall. The county will not buy anymore of the mid-mounts. That said, it is uncertain what the plan is to replace TL408 since it is coming of age and in the shop more than it is in service. One of my former recruit firefighters is the driver on TL408 so he should have some good scoop in the future. Also, my former chauffeur from my Engine 401 days is the house captain at FS08 so I can bleed him for information too.

I would say the changing demographics/socio-economic strata of greater Annandale is not conducive to the Annandale Volunteer Fire Company (AVFC) raising the funds it once did to afford new pumpers. AVFC also owns FS23 (West Annandale) and when it was time to replace 23's Quantum in 2011 (dates are getting fuzzy with time and distance), AVFC turned to the county and asked them to buy a pumper for FS23. I imagine the same diminished revenue stream has driven the AVFC to ask the county for a replacement for (busy) Engine 408.

And don't forget, the AVFC's ability to send a "bill" or "donation request" to patients transported in AVFC ambulances / medic units was minimized when the county went to ALS/BLS billing in 2001.

It all boils down to the money....and what will fit.

Hope that helps, if I hear more I will keep you in the loop. Maybe Chief413 can add to my comments.

[Roto-Ray]

Note the solid-red paint scheme on the Impel for the Academy...

[VFN102]

Note the solid-red paint scheme on the Impel for the Academy...

No "frills" needed for a training academy rig.