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[quote name='RMKDFD' date='26 January 2010 - 02:00 PM' timestamp='1264531249' post='360572']
What year did DC get rid of the 2-piece Engine Company concept, and why?
The pumpers were placed out of service in October of 1991, or in government terms, the fiscal year of 1992. For all the firemen that got "C's" and "D's" on their report cards, that would be the physical year of 1992. They were placed out of service due to budget constraints.
The early to mid 90's were troubled times for the DCFD. Companies were closed (T-1, E-3, E-34, RS-4, BFC-7, BFC-8). Then came rotating closers of 4 engines and 2 trucks everyday. Truck Company manpower reduced, fireboat manpower reduced, battalion aides out of the buggies, the haz-mat unit went combo with 12 engine, on and on. It was a disaster for morale and the public we serve. The senior men at that time told me it was a repeat of the same budget troubles and solutions of the 1970's.
The DCFD two-piece engine company was a sight to behold. 4 engine companies using a two-pump operation, with enginemen that would kill each other to get their line on the fire first. Using two pieces of pumping apparatus gave many options for hose layouts, and added redundancy into the system. Hose wagon goes kaput and the pumper just pumped right through the wagon like a big manifold, the options were only limited to the engine company's creativity. Probably the greatest asset of the two piece engine company was the fact that if the stuff hit the fan, the DCFD could call back personnel and go from 33 2-piece engines to 66 1-piece engine companies.
May the Good Lord see to it that we never see times like those again!
Semper Fidelis
[/quote]
The DCFD Brothers can thank her honor Sharon Pratt Dixon, aka - no nothing about the fire department, for whacking the department and thus getting rid of the second piece of the district's 33 engine companies.
John Hinant
Retired Member of Richmond VA Fire Bureau
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The sixth oldest paid, documented, Fire Department in the United States
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And didn't she use Otis Latin, Fire Chief at the time, as the messenger?
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[quote name='Ladder 68' date='26 January 2010 - 05:36 PM' timestamp='1264544202' post='360608']
And didn't she use Otis Latin, Fire Chief at the time, as the messenger?
[/quote]
Yes she did and didn't he retire and head south to Florida to be da Chief??? <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hysterical.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='  ' /> <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='  ' />
John Hinant
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He went to D.C.F.D. from the Houston Fire Department where he was an Assistant Chief over EMS. After D.C.F.D. he ended up in Fort Lauderdale I believe...
From there I lost track but maybe another Florida department.
[quote name='Crossbronxxpress' date='26 January 2010 - 03:11 PM' timestamp='1264535490' post='360578']
<img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/offtopic.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='  ' />
Just curious as to why Billy Goldfeder, who by the way was never a NYC Fireman, is wearing an FDNY issued 343 medal/ribbon on his Class A? Only NYC firemen who worked at the Trade Center during or after the rescue and recovery were issued those............
<img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/3_5_15.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='  ' />
[/quote]
Because if he didn't wear one, and bastardize toe Fire Department in EVERY way, shape, and form......he could only be guilty of bastardizing it in MOST ways, shapes, and forms.
Pitiful
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[quote name='Satans Child' date='26 January 2010 - 06:20 PM' timestamp='1264546802' post='360623']
Because if he didn't wear one, and bastardize toe Fire Department in EVERY way, shape, and form......he could only be guilty of bastardizing it in MOST ways, shapes, and forms.
Pitiful
[/quote]
He's a fake. Maybe someone should ask him about some legal trouble he had a few years ago <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':o' />
Cosgr <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/stirpot.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='  ' /> ve
[color="#ff0000"][size="4"]Get In, Sit Down, Hold On and Shut Up[/size][/color]
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[quote name='Ladder 68' date='26 January 2010 - 05:36 PM' timestamp='1264544202' post='360608']
And didn't she use Otis Latin, Fire Chief at the time, as the messenger?
[/quote]
Otis Latin was not Chief when the 2 piece was dissolved, it was up from the ranks Ray Alfred.
Kill 'em all, let Allah sort 'em out. NEVER forget 9/11/01 WTC, Pentagon, Pa. Avenge the acts with NO mercy.
Thanks to ALL the Brothers who were there 9/11/01 and afterwards. Words can never say what appreciation we have for you all.
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[quote name='Truckman' date='26 January 2010 - 05:44 PM' timestamp='1264544685' post='360610']
Yes she did and didn't he retire and head south to Florida to be da Chief??? <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hysterical.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=' ' /> <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=' ' />
[/quote]
Yes, he was Chief of Fort Lauderdale until 2006. Then after leaving his "impression" he finally went away...and became Austin's emergency manager along with another former drone of Fort Lauderdale Rhoda Kerr becoming their Fire Chief.
[quote name='FTLAUD' date='26 January 2010 - 08:48 PM' timestamp='1264555738' post='360646']
Yes, he was Chief of Fort Lauderdale until 2006. Then after leaving his "impression" he finally went away...and became Austin's emergency manager along with another former drone of Fort Lauderdale Rhoda Kerr becoming their Fire Chief.
[/quote]
I believe Rhoda drone was chief at Little Rock, Arkansas at some point.
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[quote name='smketrfdny' date='26 January 2010 - 08:24 PM' timestamp='1264554290' post='360636']
Otis Latin was not Chief when the 2 piece was dissolved, it was up from the ranks Ray Alfred.
[/quote]
From Jacksonville, FL FD web site
1995 - 2003
Rayfield Alfred became the city's first African-American fire chief when Mayor John Delaney recruited him from Washington, D.C., following a national search for a new chief from outside the department. A 30-year veteran firefighter in Washington, including five years as chief, Alfred oversaw plans in Jacksonville to build new fire stations and replace aging equipment.
John Hinant
Retired Member of Richmond VA Fire Bureau
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The sixth oldest paid, documented, Fire Department in the United States
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[quote name='WAGONMAN' date='26 January 2010 - 09:06 PM' timestamp='1264556813' post='360655']
I believe Rhoda drone was chief at Little Rock, Arkansas at some point.
[/quote]
see here ->> http://firechief.com/newsitems/firefight..._mae_kerr/
John Hinant
Retired Member of Richmond VA Fire Bureau
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The sixth oldest paid, documented, Fire Department in the United States
First established in 1782
"In God We Trust - All Others We Take For Granted"
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[quote name='FTLAUD' date='26 January 2010 - 08:48 PM' timestamp='1264555738' post='360646']
Yes, he was Chief of Fort Lauderdale until 2006. Then after leaving his "impression" he finally went away...and became Austin's emergency manager along with another former drone of Fort Lauderdale Rhoda Kerr becoming their Fire Chief.
[/quote]
Latin then later was an Assistant Chief for Houston, TX
John Hinant
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The sixth oldest paid, documented, Fire Department in the United States
First established in 1782
"In God We Trust - All Others We Take For Granted"
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[quote name='Crossbronxxpress' date='26 January 2010 - 03:11 PM' timestamp='1264535490' post='360578']
<img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/offtopic.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=' ' />
Just curious as to why Billy Goldfeder, who by the way was never a NYC Fireman, is wearing an FDNY issued 343 medal/ribbon on his Class A? Only NYC firemen who worked at the Trade Center during or after the rescue and recovery were issued those............
<img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/3_5_15.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=' ' />
[/quote]
Just noticed that, Marc. Even if someone our our job gave it to him, even if he wears it out of respect, he should NOT be wearing it on his Class A (Dress Blues).
Stay safe, Brothers.
Kill 'em all, let Allah sort 'em out. NEVER forget 9/11/01 WTC, Pentagon, Pa. Avenge the acts with NO mercy.
Thanks to ALL the Brothers who were there 9/11/01 and afterwards. Words can never say what appreciation we have for you all.
[quote name='RMKDFD' date='26 January 2010 - 02:00 PM' timestamp='1264531249' post='360572']
What year did DC get rid of the 2-piece Engine Company concept, and why?
The pumpers were placed out of service in October of 1991, or in government terms, the fiscal year of 1992. For all the firemen that got "C's" and "D's" on their report cards, that would be the physical year of 1992. They were placed out of service due to budget constraints.
The early to mid 90's were troubled times for the DCFD. Companies were closed (T-1, E-3, E-34, RS-4, BFC-7, BFC-8). Then came rotating closers of 4 engines and 2 trucks everyday. Truck Company manpower reduced, fireboat manpower reduced, battalion aides out of the buggies, the haz-mat unit went combo with 12 engine, on and on. It was a disaster for morale and the public we serve. The senior men at that time told me it was a repeat of the same budget troubles and solutions of the 1970's.
The DCFD two-piece engine company was a sight to behold. 4 engine companies using a two-pump operation, with enginemen that would kill each other to get their line on the fire first. Using two pieces of pumping apparatus gave many options for hose layouts, and added redundancy into the system. Hose wagon goes kaput and the pumper just pumped right through the wagon like a big manifold, the options were only limited to the engine company's creativity. Probably the greatest asset of the two piece engine company was the fact that if the stuff hit the fan, the DCFD could call back personnel and go from 33 2-piece engines to 66 1-piece engine companies.
May the Good Lord see to it that we never see times like those again!
Semper Fidelis
[/quote]
Thanks for the info. I always considered it an efficient concept which, as you stated, added redundancy to a system and expanded the capabilities of each company. Correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't there a hand full of companies using a semi 2-piece company with the "water supply rigs". I don't know much about it...
Thanks
Nate
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[quote name='Good2Go' date='27 January 2010 - 10:52 AM' timestamp='1264606356' post='360741']
Thanks for the info. I always considered it an efficient concept which, as you stated, added redundancy to a system and expanded the capabilities of each company. Correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't there a hand full of companies using a semi 2-piece company with the "water supply rigs". I don't know much about it...
Thanks
Nate
[/quote]
Nate,
Any department that ran two piece engine companies was efficient. The wagon could lay out maybe up an alley from a hydrant and the pumper would put in and supply the wagon lines. Or they could split lay, wagon drop the supply line and the pumper piece off and lay to the water source.
The two piece operation worked well through the years. Unfortantllyy the bean counters, proficiency experts and others found a way to cut out one of the pieces and have the company run with one piece.
At one time years back, late 1940's and early 1950's Richmond had all 21 two piece engine companies.
Also years back the wagons were either hose wagons and or hose booster wagons. Not full size pumpers as some department are using now day in two piece operations.
John Hinant
Retired Member of Richmond VA Fire Bureau
October 25, 1858 - October 25, 2020 = 162 years old
The sixth oldest paid, documented, Fire Department in the United States
First established in 1782
"In God We Trust - All Others We Take For Granted"
Fire at The U. S. Capital in 1920. A little apparatus, fire scene, & DCFD history. Note the 3 Engine men do "not" have brass front-piece/shield holders on their helmets. I think Indianapolis did this also?
Photo Credit to National Photo Company, all rights released
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Nope....and not that it matters for this forum but, Otis Latin started in HFD as a fire fighter moving up to reach Assistant Chief over EMS. He then left Houston to go to D.C.F.D. and then Ft. Lauderdale and then Austin OEM.
Funny story, since someone mentioned Rhonda drone, was how 3 cities almost pulled off a trifecta of sorts...
Sugar Land (Houston suburb) Chief Danny Smith (Former HFD Asst. Chief) applied in Little Rock for Rhonda drones spot. Rhonda went to Austin to replace JJ Adame as Fire Chief. And JJ is currently the Fire Chief in Sugar Land.
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[quote name='Crossbronxxpress' date='26 January 2010 - 03:11 PM' timestamp='1264535490' post='360578']
<img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/offtopic.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=' ' />
Just curious as to why Billy Goldfeder, who by the way was never a NYC Fireman, is wearing an FDNY issued 343 medal/ribbon on his Class A? Only NYC firemen who worked at the Trade Center during or after the rescue and recovery were issued those............
<img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/3_5_15.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=' ' />
[/quote]
I wanted to be an airline pilot, even took flight lessons when I was young. I had 18 hours in a Cessan 152 but I don't walk around with wings on my uniform. <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/stirpot.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=' ' /> <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tisktisk.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='  ' /> <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsdown.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='  ' /> <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_crazy.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='  ' />
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[quote name='Truckman' date='27 January 2010 - 03:12 PM' timestamp='1264611176' post='360758']
Nate,
Any department that ran two piece engine companies was efficient. The wagon could lay out maybe up an alley from a hydrant and the pumper would put in and supply the wagon lines. Or they could split lay, wagon drop the supply line and the pumper piece off and lay to the water source.
The two piece operation worked well through the years. Unfortantllyy the bean counters, proficiency experts and others found a way to cut out one of the pieces and have the company run with one piece.
At one time years back, late 1940's and early 1950's Richmond had all 21 two piece engine companies.
Also years back the wagons were either hose wagons and or hose booster wagons. Not full size pumpers as some department are using now day in two piece operations.
[/quote]
Also, the large diameter hose made the use of two piece engine companys unnecessary, back in the day of 2 1/2" - 3 1/2" hose a secound engine was required to give a presure boost to the recieving truck. Interesting to note that 5" hose was available in Europe way back in the 1950's (I read this somewhere)
[quote name='Frank B' date='28 January 2010 - 12:34 PM' timestamp='1264698841' post='360898']
Also, the large diameter hose made the use of two piece engine companys unnecessary, back in the day of 2 1/2" - 3 1/2" hose a secound engine was required to give a presure boost to the recieving truck. Interesting to note that 5" hose was available in Europe way back in the 1950's (I read this somewhere)
[/quote]
Well, in Baltimore County you must carry a 4 way valve on your 5" if you are one the cos. carrying 5". All the career wagons carry 4'. Squirrels carry either 4" or 5".
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