[quote name='Coop' post='31143' date='Sep 6 2006, 23:44 ']Dave,
I think you said it yourself. More heat stress. More Chances.. Results in FF deaths. So are we really protecting them so much better? Ok, here is something to think of....
CFD has 5,000 FF's and FDNY has 15,000 FF's(according to Firehouse Magazine)
I would like to find the info for FF deaths over the last ten years between the two depts. I would almost bet you that FDNY has more than 3x the deaths(excluding the 343 in 2001, No some people dont forget) than CFD. One of the number one killers in FF's besides apparatus accidents is heat stress and cardiac events(most caused due to heat stress). So I guess my question is... Are we really protecting our firefighters???
The honest truth most people dont like: Most organizations(like NFPA, not that I disagree with everything they do) are driven by monetary contributions from guess who???? In this case turn out gear manufacturers.
If you think it doesnt happen you are simply fooling yourself... Maybe tomorrow I will hit the IFSI library were the study was conducted......[/quote]
Coop, I am an equipment dealer with a background in the fire service going back to 1980 so I've worn both long coats with 3/4 boots and also full PPE. Yes the old way is cooler but with fires buring much hotter I feel much better protected in full PPE. The reason guys take more chances is partially to blame on the gear and a lot to blame on training and dept. mentality.
You have to realize not all turn-out gear in made the same. A very few manufactures do any type of research into the gear to reduce stress. When you are wearing full PPE rehab becomes something that is mandatory not optional.
As far as NFPA is concerned, they are not supported by contributions from the manufactures, that is one of the biggest fallacies in the fire service. All technical committees(1971,1901,1982,1851 etc.) are equally represented by 1/3 fire service people (IAFF,IAFC,NVFC and so on), 1/3 Manufacture and 1/3 other industry professionals. Every time a standard is put out for change there are public comment periods where everyone in the fire service can express their opinion. A good example of this is with the proposed changes that were suggested for SCBA's, namely the universal bottle, fire service opinion sank that idea rather quickly. So i guess all I can say at the end of this rant is understand how NFPA works before you criticize (anad no I do not agree with everything they put out including some of the new changes in the turnout gear standard that just went into effect).
Remember NFPA is only a standard making body not a law making one tho their standards can and are adopted by law making and enforcing bodies. You don't have to follow it, but you better have a good team of lawyers if you choose not to follow it and something goes terribly wrong.
Now back to our regularly scheduled programming! <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
' />
I think you said it yourself. More heat stress. More Chances.. Results in FF deaths. So are we really protecting them so much better? Ok, here is something to think of....
CFD has 5,000 FF's and FDNY has 15,000 FF's(according to Firehouse Magazine)
I would like to find the info for FF deaths over the last ten years between the two depts. I would almost bet you that FDNY has more than 3x the deaths(excluding the 343 in 2001, No some people dont forget) than CFD. One of the number one killers in FF's besides apparatus accidents is heat stress and cardiac events(most caused due to heat stress). So I guess my question is... Are we really protecting our firefighters???
The honest truth most people dont like: Most organizations(like NFPA, not that I disagree with everything they do) are driven by monetary contributions from guess who???? In this case turn out gear manufacturers.
If you think it doesnt happen you are simply fooling yourself... Maybe tomorrow I will hit the IFSI library were the study was conducted......[/quote]
Coop, I am an equipment dealer with a background in the fire service going back to 1980 so I've worn both long coats with 3/4 boots and also full PPE. Yes the old way is cooler but with fires buring much hotter I feel much better protected in full PPE. The reason guys take more chances is partially to blame on the gear and a lot to blame on training and dept. mentality.
You have to realize not all turn-out gear in made the same. A very few manufactures do any type of research into the gear to reduce stress. When you are wearing full PPE rehab becomes something that is mandatory not optional.
As far as NFPA is concerned, they are not supported by contributions from the manufactures, that is one of the biggest fallacies in the fire service. All technical committees(1971,1901,1982,1851 etc.) are equally represented by 1/3 fire service people (IAFF,IAFC,NVFC and so on), 1/3 Manufacture and 1/3 other industry professionals. Every time a standard is put out for change there are public comment periods where everyone in the fire service can express their opinion. A good example of this is with the proposed changes that were suggested for SCBA's, namely the universal bottle, fire service opinion sank that idea rather quickly. So i guess all I can say at the end of this rant is understand how NFPA works before you criticize (anad no I do not agree with everything they put out including some of the new changes in the turnout gear standard that just went into effect).
Remember NFPA is only a standard making body not a law making one tho their standards can and are adopted by law making and enforcing bodies. You don't have to follow it, but you better have a good team of lawyers if you choose not to follow it and something goes terribly wrong.
Now back to our regularly scheduled programming! <img src='http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
' />
Dennis Metzger
Eden Prairie, MN
Canon EOS T3i
All photos Copyright Metzger.Media 2014 unless otherwise noted
Eden Prairie, MN
Canon EOS T3i
All photos Copyright Metzger.Media 2014 unless otherwise noted
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